strange and worrying computer problem - Page 4

Greg Anos · 05-25-2009, 06:51 PM

One more thing to check. Does your MOBO have a battery on it? If so, you might change the battery. When my battery start to go, all sort of things have happened.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-25-2009, 06:53 PM

i imagine there's a battery, isn't there always ? but do you really think the battery could go so soon ? i only bought the damned thing about 6 months ago.

Greg Anos · 05-25-2009, 06:57 PM

Probably not, just another idea. I do know that some antivirus software can really get crossways with other low level system programs. I was running Norton on a OS pack and downloaded Ad-aware for pay. They hammered the internet connection, requiring a complete OS rebuild.

I still suspect the MOBO though...

RWood · 05-25-2009, 07:51 PM

Since the current crop of CPUs have brought the memory controllers on-board, they are sometimes power hungry doing memory movement at times when the rest of the CPU is off doing other stuff. This could create a low voltage situation resulting in memory failures. Check the BIOS to see if a .1 boost in memory and/or cpu voltage is possible as this may smooth the way for the memory.

Also, are you by chance overclocking? This also takes extra power. Many of the current generation mobo/cpu combos have easy utilities for this and many come pretuned to overclock from the manufacturer/assembler. This allows a lower cost chip to perform like a more expensive cpu.

I have had mobo batteries fail within the first month. It happens. Not often. Most run for 5+ years with no problems. I have one that is over 8 years old and still running fine.

It is the same with power supplies. They can pass all the tests in the world and then fail the next day. Stuff happens. Suspect everything.

zelda_pinwheel · 05-25-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Probably not, just another idea. I do know that some antivirus software can really get crossways with other low level system programs. I was running Norton on a OS pack and downloaded Ad-aware for pay. They hammered the internet connection, requiring a complete OS rebuild.

I still suspect the MOBO though...

(i'm not using norton. i had a bad experience with it a long time ago (i don't remember what) and switched.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWood

Since the current crop of CPUs have brought the memory controllers on-board, they are sometimes power hungry doing memory movement at times when the rest of the CPU is off doing other stuff. This could create a low voltage situation resulting in memory failures. Check the BIOS to see if a .1 boost in memory and/or cpu voltage is possible as this may smooth the way for the memory.

Also, are you by chance overclocking? This also takes extra power. Many of the current generation mobo/cpu combos have easy utilities for this and many come pretuned to overclock from the manufacturer/assembler. This allows a lower cost chip to perform like a more expensive cpu.

I have had mobo batteries fail within the first month. It happens. Not often. Most run for 5+ years with no problems. I have one that is over 8 years old and still running fine.

It is the same with power supplies. They can pass all the tests in the world and then fail the next day. Stuff happens. Suspect everything.

i am not to the best of my knowledge overclocking (if i am, it's not deliberate). i'll try to take a look in the bios (tomorrow).

none of this is particularly reassuring. sometimes i really hate computers. a lot.

Idoine · 05-25-2009, 07:59 PM

So, are you in SP2 or SP3 ?
If in SP2, I'd be upgrading to SP3. And search for the most recent drivers for Motherboard, Graphic card, network card and so one...

Good luck !

Edit : And install a true antivirus, Nod32 for example, and activate Teatimer from Spybot, to block any spyware...

mjh215 · 05-25-2009, 08:39 PM

"Have you tried turning it off and back on again?" j/k

Z, I often keep a copy of Ultimate Boot CD handy. I find memtest86+ works well. You need to let it run over and over, leave it go while you sleep. (Chances are the errors that cause windows to reboot the computer won't cause this to)

You also might want to check and see when you updated Windows last and what third party software and/or updates you installed last and restoring previous to that. Or likewise could try loading the latest updates.

You've also checked (in a hurry so not rereading everything, lol) any exhaust openings and fan openings for proper clearance on the computer correct? I don't know if you have air conditioning or anything, and it has been getting warmer recently. (What time of the year did the previous system fail?)

-MJ

jgray · 05-25-2009, 09:47 PM

I never run my computers without a UPS. I have been doing this for years. Not only does a UPS protect you from power outages, brownouts and flickers, but a name brand UPS is also a good surge protector. Most of the inexpensive (cheap) surge protectors are practically useless. Most of the cheap ones really are cheap and only have a single MOV for surge protection. In a nutshell - get a UPS. It is good computer insurance.

ProfJulie · 05-25-2009, 11:25 PM

Several years ago, I upgrade the RAM in my laptop and after a few months, I started receiving bluescreen errors just like what you describe. I searched and searched for a solution and finally found a software on Microsoft's website that confirmed the problem was the result of a problem with the RAM in the device.

When I removed the RAM chips from the computer, the problem went away.....the RAM chips were defective! When I contacted the place where I bought them, they replaced them and everything was great afterwards.

Here's a link to the Microsoft software that helped me figure this out. Be sure the read through the related documentation.

ahammer · 05-26-2009, 09:38 AM

this sounds like it could also be a overheating issue have you look at the cpu heat.

the cpu fan mayhave become unseated when the case was moved or it could be in a spot without good cyclation to few cpu fans maybe . I went over bord on my case and have 8 fans in it

my mobo came with softwere to look. if you do not have some I can see if I can dig some up on the interwebs

LazyScot · 05-26-2009, 05:30 PM

You said that it happened both with your new and old computers. Is there anything that you have kept over from your old computer, e.g. components, peripherals, USB stuff, etc? Are any things often plugged in when it reboots? Some PSUs have something like overload shutdown and if you have a dodgy peripheral that is shorting out the PSU (or a mis-rated PSU for the computer, as might happen with an overly powerful graphics card), then sometimes they shutdown (I've had this happen occasionally).

That said, it does also sound like ahammer's suggestion of an auto-cutout due to heating issue -- is there good ventilation around it?

kazbates · 05-26-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahammer

this sounds like it could also be a overheating issue have you look at the cpu heat.

the cpu fan mayhave become unseated when the case was moved or it could be in a spot without good cyclation to few cpu fans maybe . I went over bord on my case and have 8 fans in it

my mobo came with softwere to look. if you do not have some I can see if I can dig some up on the interwebs

I had also thought of the overheating issue, but wasn't sure since that seems to be more of an issue with laptops. My daughter's laptop turns off every now and then because her fan isn't working properly, but it doesn't automatically restart.

My school secretary's computer kept restarting and we realized that the outlet into which it was plugged was faulty. They had had various tech people looking at the problem but couldn't figure it out.

I called my husband and he very logically said, "check the outlet".

Sometimes it's as simple as that.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 05-26-2009, 07:32 PM

In a previous job, one of the server's would spontaneously reboot, usually upsetting a large amount of people when it did (it was the print server...). That turned out to be a memory fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazbates

My school secretary's computer kept restarting and we realized that the outlet into which it was plugged was faulty. They had had various tech people looking at the problem but couldn't figure it out.

I called my husband and he very logically said, "check the outlet".

Sometimes it's as simple as that.

Can he call our Facilities team please?

We're trying to get them to test the power sockets in one of the meeting rooms as people's laptops keep restarting if they're plugged into the mains. for some reason they won't, claiming it's clearly an IT issue

zelda_pinwheel · 05-26-2009, 07:58 PM

thanks everyone for all the help ! as irritated as this situation makes me (and believe me, it makes me very very irritated), it makes it easier having so much useful advice.

idoine : you don't recommend avast anti-virus ? i installed that one because it was recommended to me by 2 different friends who both know much more than i do about this stuff and i've been quite happy with it so far... doesn't seem to get in my way, detects things if there is anything to detect, doesn't give false alerts, doesn't conflict with anything else... why is Nod32 (i've never heard of that one...) better ? teatimer... i think i shut that off for some reason but i'll activate it again (since you say so...

). unless it starts causing trouble, that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjh215

"Have you tried turning it off and back on again?" j/k

ar ar ar.

mj : thanks for the ultimate boot cd link. of course, i won't know what to do with most of those things, but i'll download it anyway. i already got the memtest86 although i haven't had a chance to run that one yet. i'm starting to think it's not the ram which is the problem. testing overnight : not likely ! it's in my bedroom and the noise of the fan would drive me crazy while i was trying to sleep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgray

I never run my computers without a UPS. I have been doing this for years. Not only does a UPS protect you from power outages, brownouts and flickers, but a name brand UPS is also a good surge protector. Most of the inexpensive (cheap) surge protectors are practically useless. Most of the cheap ones really are cheap and only have a single MOV for surge protection. In a nutshell - get a UPS. It is good computer insurance.

since i have a pretty ancient and unreliable electrical installation here i think that might be a good idea. any recommendations for good ones, the cheapest and smallest possible please ? bad timing to spend more money on the farking computer, but if it's necessary, it's necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahammer

this sounds like it could also be a overheating issue have you look at the cpu heat.

the cpu fan mayhave become unseated when the case was moved or it could be in a spot without good cyclation to few cpu fans maybe . I went over bord on my case and have 8 fans in it

my mobo came with softwere to look. if you do not have some I can see if I can dig some up on the interwebs

i think everest can tell me that, right ? i've stuck a couple of reports at the end of this message. but if you have a different suggestion please tell me. the fans both seem to be working well (i can hear them, the ventilation grilles are clean, and if i put my hand in front of them i can feel the air moving). it doesn't have huge amounts of space around it because i don't have huge amounts of space available, but the ventilation grilles are not blocked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazbates

My school secretary's computer kept restarting and we realized that the outlet into which it was plugged was faulty. They had had various tech people looking at the problem but couldn't figure it out.

I called my husband and he very logically said, "check the outlet".

Sometimes it's as simple as that.

i am beginning to think it could be electrical. as i said, the electrical installation here is ancient and unreliable and i've had (other) problems with it before. how would i check the outlet, exactly ?

it could also be overheating, i suppose, although that seems less likely to me since i'm pretty sure i had this problem during the winter as well and at least theoretically it shouldn't have been overheating then (particularly this winter). i specifically requested a box with a good fan (there are 2 : one in back, one on the proc which blows out through vents in the side, there is a tunnel built onto the inside of the panel to send the air directly out) because it's usually running for about 15 hours straight (sometimes more) every day, but yesterday it restarted twice and it was really hot all day ; today it was freezing and no trouble. i haven't noticed if there's a correlation the previous times though, it could be coincidence. i installed the trial version of everest and i did a report yesterday (although it was already 10 at night), the temperatures were :

Code:

Températures:
      Carte mère                                        42 °C  (108 °F)
      Processeur                                        39 °C  (102 °F)
      CPU #1 / Coeur #1                             50 °C  (122 °F)
      CPU #1 / Coeur #2                             50 °C  (122 °F)
      Diode du GPU (DispIO)                         47 °C  (117 °F)
      Diode du GPU (MemIO)                        49 °C  (120 °F)
      Diode du GPU (Ombreur)                      51 °C  (124 °F)
      SAMSUNG HD103UJ                            [ TRIAL VERSION ]
      WDC WD5000AAJS-32YFA0                  [ TRIAL VERSION ]

Ventilateurs:
      Processeur                                        1152 RPM

just now :

Code:

Températures:
      Carte mère                                        40 °C  (104 °F)
      Processeur                                        35 °C  (95 °F)
      CPU #1 / Coeur #1                             47 °C  (117 °F)
      CPU #1 / Coeur #2                             47 °C  (117 °F)
      Diode du GPU (DispIO)                         45 °C  (113 °F)
      Diode du GPU (MemIO)                        46 °C  (115 °F)
      Diode du GPU (Ombreur)                      48 °C  (118 °F)
      SAMSUNG HD103UJ                             [ TRIAL VERSION ]
      WDC WD5000AAJS-32YFA0                   [ TRIAL VERSION ]

    Ventilateurs:
      Processeur                                        973 RPM

mklynds · 05-26-2009, 08:11 PM

If you know someone with a UPS and you could borrow it, there is a good chance that is your problem. There are some higher end power bars that will regulate the current to keep it nice and even. Monster Cable is a brand I highly recommend. They also make voltage regulators and UPS units as well so you should be able to find a power sollution that is in your budget.

If you can borrow a UPS for a test and find it doesn't help I would pursue getting warranty coverage. If it is a heat issue, and you are not over clocking, then it could be from a faulty fan or even from a bad component on your MoBo (mother board) that is creating excessive heat. I would also recommend getting some one to look at it with your warranty coverage before you try anything that might void any warranty you have.

In my experience problems like these are not always easy to diagnose, not even in a workshop. If you do take it in for warranty work it is likely they'll just replace parts rather then spend too many man hours trying to fix it.

Hope that helps.

05-25-2009, 07:59 PM	#51
Idoine Which book will be next ? Posts: 661 Karma: 2172 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: France Device: Cybook Gen3 1.5, Sony PRS 600 RC, Samsung Omnia...	So, are you in SP2 or SP3 ? If in SP2, I'd be upgrading to SP3. And search for the most recent drivers for Motherboard, Graphic card, network card and so one... Good luck ! Edit : And install a true antivirus, Nod32 for example, and activate Teatimer from Spybot, to block any spyware... Last edited by Idoine; 05-25-2009 at 08:04 PM.

05-25-2009, 09:47 PM	#53
jgray Fanatic Posts: 554 Karma: 2928497 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Clara 2E & Sage	UPS I never run my computers without a UPS. I have been doing this for years. Not only does a UPS protect you from power outages, brownouts and flickers, but a name brand UPS is also a good surge protector. Most of the inexpensive (cheap) surge protectors are practically useless. Most of the cheap ones really are cheap and only have a single MOV for surge protection. In a nutshell - get a UPS. It is good computer insurance.

05-26-2009, 09:38 AM	#55
ahammer cybershark Posts: 314 Karma: 2227 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: AZ Device: none	this sounds like it could also be a overheating issue have you look at the cpu heat. the cpu fan mayhave become unseated when the case was moved or it could be in a spot without good cyclation to few cpu fans maybe . I went over bord on my case and have 8 fans in it my mobo came with softwere to look. if you do not have some I can see if I can dig some up on the interwebs Last edited by ahammer; 05-26-2009 at 09:40 AM.

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05-25-2009, 06:51 PM	#46
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,531 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	One more thing to check. Does your MOBO have a battery on it? If so, you might change the battery. When my battery start to go, all sort of things have happened.

05-25-2009, 06:53 PM	#47
zelda_pinwheel zeldinha zippy zeldissima Posts: 27,827 Karma: 921169 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Paris, France Device: eb1150 & is that a nook in her pocket, or she just happy to see you?	i imagine there's a battery, isn't there always ? but do you really think the battery could go so soon ? i only bought the damned thing about 6 months ago.

05-25-2009, 06:57 PM	#48
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,531 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	Probably not, just another idea. I do know that some antivirus software can really get crossways with other low level system programs. I was running Norton on a OS pack and downloaded Ad-aware for pay. They hammered the internet connection, requiring a complete OS rebuild. I still suspect the MOBO though...

05-25-2009, 07:51 PM	#49
RWood Technogeezer Posts: 7,233 Karma: 1601464 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Device: Sony PRS-500	Since the current crop of CPUs have brought the memory controllers on-board, they are sometimes power hungry doing memory movement at times when the rest of the CPU is off doing other stuff. This could create a low voltage situation resulting in memory failures. Check the BIOS to see if a .1 boost in memory and/or cpu voltage is possible as this may smooth the way for the memory. Also, are you by chance overclocking? This also takes extra power. Many of the current generation mobo/cpu combos have easy utilities for this and many come pretuned to overclock from the manufacturer/assembler. This allows a lower cost chip to perform like a more expensive cpu. I have had mobo batteries fail within the first month. It happens. Not often. Most run for 5+ years with no problems. I have one that is over 8 years old and still running fine. It is the same with power supplies. They can pass all the tests in the world and then fail the next day. Stuff happens. Suspect everything.

05-25-2009, 08:39 PM	#52
mjh215 Guru Posts: 988 Karma: 12653 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: None of your business	"Have you tried turning it off and back on again?" j/k Z, I often keep a copy of Ultimate Boot CD handy. I find memtest86+ works well. You need to let it run over and over, leave it go while you sleep. (Chances are the errors that cause windows to reboot the computer won't cause this to) You also might want to check and see when you updated Windows last and what third party software and/or updates you installed last and restoring previous to that. Or likewise could try loading the latest updates. You've also checked (in a hurry so not rereading everything, lol) any exhaust openings and fan openings for proper clearance on the computer correct? I don't know if you have air conditioning or anything, and it has been getting warmer recently. (What time of the year did the previous system fail?) -MJ

05-25-2009, 11:25 PM	#54
ProfJulie Evangelist Posts: 423 Karma: 890 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Device: whatever	Several years ago, I upgrade the RAM in my laptop and after a few months, I started receiving bluescreen errors just like what you describe. I searched and searched for a solution and finally found a software on Microsoft's website that confirmed the problem was the result of a problem with the RAM in the device. When I removed the RAM chips from the computer, the problem went away.....the RAM chips were defective! When I contacted the place where I bought them, they replaced them and everything was great afterwards. Here's a link to the Microsoft software that helped me figure this out. Be sure the read through the related documentation.

05-26-2009, 05:30 PM	#56
LazyScot DSil Posts: 3,201 Karma: 6895096 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hants, UK Device: Kindle, Cybook	You said that it happened both with your new and old computers. Is there anything that you have kept over from your old computer, e.g. components, peripherals, USB stuff, etc? Are any things often plugged in when it reboots? Some PSUs have something like overload shutdown and if you have a dodgy peripheral that is shorting out the PSU (or a mis-rated PSU for the computer, as might happen with an overly powerful graphics card), then sometimes they shutdown (I've had this happen occasionally). That said, it does also sound like ahammer's suggestion of an auto-cutout due to heating issue -- is there good ventilation around it?

05-26-2009, 08:11 PM	#60
mklynds That guy, no not that guy Posts: 337 Karma: 2846 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Device: PRS600 Red	If you know someone with a UPS and you could borrow it, there is a good chance that is your problem. There are some higher end power bars that will regulate the current to keep it nice and even. Monster Cable is a brand I highly recommend. They also make voltage regulators and UPS units as well so you should be able to find a power sollution that is in your budget. If you can borrow a UPS for a test and find it doesn't help I would pursue getting warranty coverage. If it is a heat issue, and you are not over clocking, then it could be from a faulty fan or even from a bad component on your MoBo (mother board) that is creating excessive heat. I would also recommend getting some one to look at it with your warranty coverage before you try anything that might void any warranty you have. In my experience problems like these are not always easy to diagnose, not even in a workshop. If you do take it in for warranty work it is likely they'll just replace parts rather then spend too many man hours trying to fix it. Hope that helps.

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