N.Y. Times Article: Steal This Book (for $9.99)

[Kris777]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Just out of curiosity and because I really don't want to look up the answer, is it copyright infringement to lend someone a paperback book?

As I know you can't copy books but you can lend someone your book without any problem

[Elsi]

Originally Posted by Boston

...and unlike pbooks, ebooks cannot be shared (unless on the same Amazon account).

I used to pass along all of my pbooks. Now if I recommend a book to someone, they have to go buy it.

Originally Posted by Kris777

Agree. If you for example have 10 friends you can give your paper book to all of them and 10 people will read the same book (your friends can give you their books too) but if you purchased DRMed book you can't give it to anybody. No problem like this if you buy DRM free ebooks from websites like Fictionwise.com

Not true. The Copyright notice at Fictionwise says:

Copyright Notice

You may download eBooks that you have bought for your personal use, but may not distribute them to other people using email, floppy, or any other method. You may not print copies and distribute those copies to other persons. Doing any of these things is a violation of international copyright law and would subject you to possible fines or imprisonment. It also deprives authors of their fair royalties. We charge reasonable prices for our eBooks; please do not steal from us and our authors.

So, it is clear that all electronic books, whether with DRM or without, are restricted to the original purchaser. What you get with DRM-free books is the ability to move them from one device to another. DRM-laden books are restricted to a single device. You can sometimes de-authorize a device and download the e-Book again for a new/replacement device, but there's a risk if the original seller of the e-Book is no longer around.

Originally Posted by kazbates

Just out of curiosity and because I really don't want to look up the answer, is it copyright infringement to lend someone a paperback book?

Nope. No infringement at all in the USA. The first-sale doctrine says that the copyright holder's rights to control the change of ownership of a particular copy end once that copy is sold, as long as no additional copies are made. So, when you buy a paperback book, you own a unique copy of the work and you may dispose of that copy any way you choose -- sell it, lend it, give it away, or even destroy it. I don't know if copyright is interpreted the same way in other countries.

[Sonist]

So many falsehoods in this article, I don't know where to begin. The parties interviewed were mostly on the publishing side, and some of the statements were plainly uninformed.

First (Kris777 deleted this), the article states: "...Buying music, after all, is so much cheaper now that there aren’t discs and plastic cases. Shouldn’t the same logic apply to books?..."

Not true. Most albums are actually a better deal in physical form, than in electronic. For instance, take a look at Eminem's Relapse. The CD has 20 songs, in uncompressed format, without DRM, plus art and packaging. I costs $9.99.

To purchase the same number of tracks in digital format from iTunes, in compressed, lower quality format, at $0.99, would cost you about double.

I understand, that with iTunes, users get instant gratification, and can cherry-pick only the best songs, but still..., double, for inferior quality?!

As for the Apple-bashing, it's a little misguided, and a little uninformed. Apple does enough bad things, but digital music prices would have been higher, if Jobs didn't hold out. See, for example this article.

The music execs succeeded to twist Apple's arm and raise prices, although less than they wanted to. But guess what? The sales for the $1.29 tracks immediately dropped. Surprise, surprise....

So, back to books and publishers. The dire warnings from the publishers are pathetic (remind me of the teacher's unions:-). Seriously, if they can't turn profit on a $9.99 sale, without any printing, shipping and storage costs, they shouldn't be in this business.

And if they want to charge more, it is their right, but they shouldn't whine when consumers refuse to pay up. It is their right, too.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kazbates

Just out of curiosity and because I really don't want to look up the answer, is it copyright infringement to lend someone a paperback book?

No, because you are not making a copy of the book by doing so. If you give someone a copy of an eBook, on the other hand, you are making a copy of it, hence copyright law applies. The only exception to this would be if you were to lend your friend your actual reading device, with the book on it. That may be prohibited by the T&C's at the bookstore where you bought the book, but it's not a breach of copyright.

[garygibsonsf]

The following scenario crossed my mind: I buy an ebook and download it directly to a memory card plugged into my Sony Reader. I then make a backup copy on my own computer, but the original file remains on the card. I then loan the card - containing the actual file I purchased - to a friend so that he can read the book. He now has the original book I purchased - not a copy of it. I have loaned it, but I have not copied it - at least, not for him.

The language of the T&C specifically states you cannot distribute a book using electronic means. 'Distribution' implies many copies. A single, original, purchased file, even if not copied for backup, then might - or so I speculate - be legally loaned to someone else.

Is there anything I missed?

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, because you are not making a copy of the book by doing so. If you give someone a copy of an eBook, on the other hand, you are making a copy of it, hence copyright law applies. The only exception to this would be if you were to lend your friend your actual reading device, with the book on it. That may be prohibited by the T&C's at the bookstore where you bought the book, but it's not a breach of copyright.

[Jack Tingle]

"I then make a backup copy on my own computer..."

That may be the deal breaker, depending on the terms and conditions of the sale. The copyright holder has the exclusive right to make copies of any kind. When you buy a copy, you have the right to own and use one copy. If you physically give that single copy to someone else, you're on reasonable ground. (Yes, some lawyers will kvetch, but I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to sue you, and clearly establish a precedent.) If you make additional copies, now "fair use" comes into play, and that's a mess for digital copies. Archival copies are sometimes legal, and sometimes not.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by garygibsonsf

The following scenario crossed my mind: I buy an ebook and download it directly to a memory card plugged into my Sony Reader. I then make a backup copy on my own computer, but the original file remains on the card. I then loan the card - containing the actual file I purchased - to a friend so that he can read the book. He now has the original book I purchased - not a copy of it. I have loaned it, but I have not copied it - at least, not for him.

The language of the T&C specifically states you cannot distribute a book using electronic means. 'Distribution' implies many copies. A single, original, purchased file, even if not copied for backup, then might - or so I speculate - be legally loaned to someone else.

Is there anything I missed?

You don't even have to make a backup copy. You load that book onto your memory card. You then loan that memory card out to a friend and you donwload it again, from the same store... You haven't even made a copy in that case...

[TallMomof2]

All publishers have to do is to allow me to resell my $$$ DRMed ebook after I finish with it and I would gladly pay a higher price. Since I am the only person allowed to have a copy of the ebook it's worth less to me than the paper book (hard, soft, or trade) edition.

[garygibsonsf]

Most of us, I think, are most likely to loan books to people we know. So if we chose to be quite so pernickety about the so-and-so's and legalities of copying, we could should we so choose keep one copy of the book, on a memory card, pass it around a bunch of friends, safe in the knowledge it could be re-downloaded in the event of a mishap from wherever it was purchased (good point! Though I've heard Waterstones in the UK don't allow that, to their shame). And friends, in turn, could do the same for us, and loan their single copy on their own memory cards. Assuming, that is (a point outside of the copyright question, but still relevant) that any associated DRM wouldn't stiff said books when we plugged other people's memory cards into our respective readers.

Book swap party, anyone?

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

All publishers have to do is to allow me to resell my $$$ DRMed ebook after I finish with it and I would gladly pay a higher price. Since I am the only person allowed to have a copy of the ebook it's worth less to me than the paper book (hard, soft, or trade) edition.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

You don't even have to make a backup copy. You load that book onto your memory card. You then loan that memory card out to a friend and you donwload it again, from the same store... You haven't even made a copy in that case...

With as touchy as the DRM police are, I can't help wondering if they would view this negatively, even though you are basically doing the same as you would if it had been a paper book. That was were I was heading with my previous question. Where do they draw the line and How can they draw the line?

For full disclosure: I'm not one to lend any form of books. Whenever I have done, they haven't come back to me in the same condition in which I lent them. And in some cases, they've never come back at all!

[Kris777]

Originally Posted by Elsi

Not true. The Copyright notice at Fictionwise says:
So, it is clear that all electronic books, whether with DRM or without, are restricted to the original purchaser. What you get with DRM-free books is the ability to move them from one device to another. DRM-laden books are restricted to a single device. You can sometimes de-authorize a device and download the e-Book again for a new/replacement device, but there's a risk if the original seller of the e-Book is no longer around.

Can I buy DRM-free eBook, download it on SD card and after it give SD card (don't make the copy) to my friend the same way as I give my paper book?
Is it restricted?

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by kazbates

For full disclosure: I'm not one to lend any form of books. Whenever I have done, they haven't come back to me in the same condition in which I lent them. And in some cases, they've never come back at all!

I stopped lending books too for the same reasons as you. Now I either give the book away (if it is one I do not want to keep) or purchase copies of the book to give away (if it is a fabulous book).

To respond to the original topic of this thread, I've read many of David Baldacci's books and, while his books are entertaining, I would never pay more than about $9 for them. I consider them "throw aways" - books I read and then promptly pass on to others, give away or throw away. Unfortunately, the only thing I can do with one of those electronic DRMed books is throw it away (delete it from my devices), so even $9 is too much for those books. I think Mr. Baldacci thinks more of his books than I do.

[Parastie]

Hmm...now that makes sense. I don't think I'd want to spend $26 for a DRMed book (unless I'm certain I can remove it). However, I still say that I wouldn't mind paying $26 for a digital copy of a book. I believe in paying for the content.

It's like paying $400 for an ebook today, when we all know that in time it'll be around $100 or less. You pay to be the first to get your hands on something new. That's to be expected.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Because when you pay $26 for access to a DRMed ebook you get access to that book in one format for a few devices, access that might go away at any time at the whim of the publisher or wholesaler or retailer.

When you pay $26 for a hardback, you get to own the hardback. You can keep it, read it anywhere you wish, loan it to friends, resell it.

[Jack Tingle]

Originally Posted by Kris777

Can I buy [a] DRM-free eBook, download it on [to an] SD card and after [I read] it give [the] SD card (don't make the copy) to my friend the same way as I give my paper book?
Is it restricted?

As I've seen the law interpreted, that should be legal*. You aren't making an illegal copy. Two people are sequentially reading the same copy. That's legal. You give up control of the copy by giving it to your friend. You take the risk that you won't get the physical copy back and have to buy a replacement. All of that make it legit.

Where people weasel is when they say, "I make a backup and then give..." or "I give a copy to my friend, and I don't read my copy while they have one, which they erase when done." All of those are copies, which you have no right to make.

The fundamental problem is that the cost of copying has been reduced to the point of being meaningless. That makes copyright violation so easy everyone can do it. You used to have to be a Taiwanese book pirate with a printing plant to do it and make money. Now you don't make money, but you incur no cost. Your pay-out is in social capital with your friends. The book business has to change. DRM is someone's first, foolish attempt at those changes, but as a vast number of people have pointed out, it won't work. Eventually a workable business model will show up.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

*Disclaimer: Your lawyers may vary.

[pdurrant]

Yes, there's something to be said for having the ebook of a hot new book be at a higher price initially. Perhaps a higher price for the few weeks after origination has finished, and before the paper copies hit the shops?

I've been known to spend $15 on an ebook, when I knew that in three months I could buy it for $6 or less.

Originally Posted by Parastie

Hmm...now that makes sense. I don't think I'd want to spend $26 for a DRMed book (unless I'm certain I can remove it). However, I still say that I wouldn't mind paying $26 for a digital copy of a book. I believe in paying for the content.

It's like paying $400 for an ebook today, when we all know that in time it'll be around $100 or less. You pay to be the first to get your hands on something new. That's to be expected.