Who says going electronic necessarily is going green?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

It's a good suggestion. The only problem with it is that we are already polluting far too much... and simply switching out old coal-burners for nuclear, etc, as they get retired isn't nearly enough to solve the problem. It would result in only a small reduction in emissions, and we need to reduce emissions a lot.

Yes, we need to make sure all new plants are clean and efficient. But we also need to change old habits, and replace old equipment with new, cleaner equipment, whether it is due to be retired or not.

Individuals may not like to be bullied, but we same individuals have lived too extravagantly, of our own accord... it's time to take our medicine, too. We have to bite the bullet, just like the utilities and manufacturers... this won't work if everyone doesn't do their part. Which is why, the more we argue about why the other groups need to do more, the more time we waste getting nothing done.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

It's a good suggestion. The only problem with it is that we are already polluting far too much... and simply switching out old coal-burners for nuclear, etc, as they get retired isn't nearly enough to solve the problem. It would result in only a small reduction in emissions, and we need to reduce emissions a lot.

Yes, we need to make sure all new plants are clean and efficient. But we also need to change old habits, and replace old equipment with new, cleaner equipment, whether it is due to be retired or not.

Individuals may not like to be bullied, but we same individuals have lived too extravagantly, of our own accord... it's time to take our medicine, too. We have to bite the bullet, just like the utilities and manufacturers... this won't work if everyone doesn't do their part. Which is why, the more we argue about why the other groups need to do more, the more time we waste getting nothing done.

So Steve, when are you swapping out all you computers for ARM based, 1W CPUs that go around 400 MHZ? You computing is just too extravagant...

[mjh215]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

[...]when are you swapping out all you computers for ARM based, 1W CPUs that go around 400 MHZ? You computing is just too extravagant...

Remember, to those individuals what is necessary and needed in their eyes is acceptable... The same with privacy laws, etc. I've often times asked those kids that get in my face on these topics how many cel phones they've gone through that year.

-MJ

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by mjh215

Remember, to those individuals what is necessary and needed in their eyes is acceptable... The same with privacy laws, etc. I've often times asked those kids that get in my face on these topics how many cel phones they've gone through that year.

-MJ

I know. Just reminding....

[desertgrandma]

Wait. So "bullying" is okay as long as its for your cause?

The "right" one?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Wait. So "bullying" is okay as long as its for your cause?

The "right" one?

Just holding a mirror, DG...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

So Steve, when are you swapping out all you computers for ARM based, 1W CPUs that go around 400 MHZ? You computing is just too extravagant...

I've already converted my daily computer use from my desktop, which I often turned on the minute I came home and left on until I went to bed... or all night and weekends... to a laptop that uses significantly less power, and sleeps and turns on and off more rapidly and efficiently. I also use my PDA regularly, even to the extent of doing a lot of my Word editing on it instead of the laptop (and since it's a PDA, I can read e-books without needing an additional light).

The result is a very significant cut in my daily power use, and the shutting-down of an entire power strip of peripherals that used to draw phantom loads all day long.

Your move, pardner.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mjh215

Remember, to those individuals what is necessary and needed in their eyes is acceptable... The same with privacy laws, etc.

Which is exactly why we're in the state we're in. And, of course, everyone just says that it was everyone else's extravagances and waste that put us here, they had nothing to do with it, and there was nothing they could do about it...

So, everybody go ahead and keep insisting that I'm blaming everyone else but me, and telling everyone else to change except myself. I'm not just riding this bandwagon, I was early on the 1970s wagon, and I've been actively working to keep it on the road since then, through conservation, contribution, and honest effort. And watched all that get happily, haughtily, smugly pi$$ed away by my fellow countrymen, thank you so very much. But I still make the effort, and will continue to do so.

I know the key to living sensibly, is to do it all the time... not when it's convenient, or when the new conservation bandwagon happens to pull up to your door. You have to live by it, buy by it, eat by it, work by it, dress by it, clean by it, and constantly remember where it's all going when you're done with it.

When you do that, you find it's very easy to live green, even to the extent of using your electronics... because you bought the right stuff in the first place, and you use it sensibly. Electronics in themselves may not be green, but the way you use them can make them green. I may not have a 1 watt 400MHz CPU in my laptop, but I know how to use it sensibly, and when to turn it off when I'm done... then leave the office, turn out the light on my way, and enjoy the rest of my life.

And I am certainly not perfect, living a commune with 60 of my closest friends, walking to work, growing my own food, and rebuilding my home from scrap lumber I found at the local condemned development before it was all leveled and hauled away. My house is made up of brick, because if it was made of glass, it would have been demolished long ago by all the stones thrown at it. But I am constantly vigilant for how I do everything I do, and wherever I see the chance, I make it better. I do that for me, for my country, and for the world. That's my job.

Yo: There's room on the wagon. I'm offering a hand, to whoever wants it... and whether they take it or not.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I've already converted my daily computer use from my desktop, which I often turned on the minute I came home and left on until I went to bed... or all night and weekends... to a laptop that uses significantly less power, and sleeps and turns on and off more rapidly and efficiently. I also use my PDA regularly, even to the extent of doing a lot of my Word editing on it instead of the laptop (and since it's a PDA, I can read e-books without needing an additional light).

The result is a very significant cut in my daily power use, and the shutting-down of an entire power strip of peripherals that used to draw phantom loads all day long.

Your move, pardner.

That's why I started the "How much computer do you need thread". The responses were interesting. The question is how do you minimize your computer electricity footprint while the entire industry is based on making you upgrade your software to more and more hardware/energy intensive using software. (And eventually cutting your support off if you don't.) If Microsoft stops activating it's software, you're cut off. They haven't yet, but everything from XP forward is subject to that. All in the name of DRM.

Windows 2000 SP4 is the last immortal (i.e. no activation required) Windows OS. It has the annoying habit of not letting you format a boot pack greater that 137GB. I'm still trying to figure how to work around that. I have found some pointers, but I wouldn't be able to get around to them for a couple of weeks. The long-term goal is to swap out my old machines for the new nettop machines at 36W or less. But that market is not mature enough yet to buy into. Another year. Why Microsoft OSes. Well, I'm been using them since DOS 1.0, and after 25 years, why change. (Linux keep bloating up as well, if you look closely.)

To me, this is one of those "no pain" swap outs, as I preferred the Win 2000 interface anyway. And the nettops are cheap, $300-$400 dollars each, which makes good financial sense.

What to do about viruses, as win 2000 is no long being supported by major software houses?" A second nettop, running Linux, just for web surfing, with a toggle back and forth.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Windows 2000 SP4 is the last immortal (i.e. no activation required) Windows OS...

I know what you mean about W2K. I kept it running on my PC and laptop as long as I could, until the need (okay: desire) for more up-to-date applications outweighed my disinclination in upgrading. And even then, I was upgrading to XP after Vista had come out. How long will XP last? I don't know. What will I use afterward... another M$ product? I don't know that, either. But I continually examine the options, so when the time comes for me to choose, I can make a sensible decision on equipment, brand, OS, SW, etc.

And I never, ever buy brand new. Some of the best purchases I've made have been refurbished and recycled equipment, or last-version SW, usually at half or less of the original or up-to-date cost. Like with so many other things, it's the only way to buy computer stuff... buying new is just nuts on a lot of levels.

[RickyMaveety]

Well, I'm a bit of a pack rat .... it runs in the family. It is not unusual for me to order upwards of 50 books a year. When I was doing it with regular hardback or paper back books, there was a problem in that the books were starting to crowd me out of the house, because, while you would think I could donate them to the library after I finished reading them, I really can't, because I like to read certain books again and again.

Now, I am finding that, if I can buy the digital book, I can actually get rid of the hardback or paperback (valuable first editions excluded from this process for obvious reasons) and slowly my pile of "stuff" is getting smaller.

At least instead of trying to find a home for 1000s of books (when I go toes up before too long), who ever has to sort out my estate will only have to get rid of three K1s and one KDX. At least I hope that's how it works out.

So, I didn't buy them to go green as much as I did to get out from under this load of STUFF I've been living with since freaking forever.

[ruskie]

Here's something new:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06...t_enhancement/