Amazon to Charge by Megabyte for Personal Docs

[Sporadic]

Originally Posted by khalleron

I don't own a Kindle, but I understand people's ire. Amazon justifies the higher price of the Kindle by the increased capabilities it has over the Sony, i.e. wireless access to books, documents and the web. If Amazon starts charging more for something people feel they've already paid for, then yes, anger is justified.

Changing the fine print - not a way to win the hearts and minds of your customers. Except SirBruce's, of course.

I think alot of people are confused about this just like the reviewers that kept stating you could add your own documents for a fee.

If you want Amazon to convert your documents and wirelessly send it to your Kindle, there is and has always been a fee.

If you want Amazon to convert your documents, email it to your free kindle address and they will do it for free. You have to move the file to the Kindle via USB.

I don't understand why people are getting so upset over a premium service that has always been a premium service.

[chilady1]

So to be clear, does this mean if I purchase a book from Fictionwise (which I do quite often) and have it sent to Amazon to send to my K2 wirelessly, the charge will now be 0.15 cents per megabyte?

[Slow_hand]

sirbruce, bingo.

Originally Posted by sirbruce

No, but I'm a longtime Amazon customer since they started and they gave me a very nice credit card so there's a lot of loyalty built up there.



The way certain people are talking and reacting to this news leads me to think they don't understand it. Amazon is not charging $0.15 per megabyte to download books! They're not charging $0.15 per megabyte to use the web! They're only charging $0.15 per megabyte to use their email document conversion service wirelessly, which pratically speaking effects a tiny percentage of their customer base. These people can still use the conversion service for free, or use a third-party program like Calibre, and put the converted books on their Kindle via USB. Or even via a website wirelessly if they're clever.

[carld]

I wonder if it matters if you send files in mobi, which doesn't need conversion, or not? I'm guessing not, but don't know.

[koland]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

... for all I know the new document conversion fees could start immediately.

Depends on when they updated the actual charges documentation (which technically was not done yet; at least when I checked yesterday it still said 10 cents per document). Their documentation does state they will charge you when you hit $3. So, theoretically they could hit everyone with back charges up to that amount at any time (you could argue that any charge over $3 was not allowed, due to both their wording and official notification from Kindle CS reps that the fee was not in effect, at least as recently as March).

The blog entry says: we made two changes, they are effective may 4. Not well, perhaps (and with enough ambiguity to keep some lawyers well paid, I'm sure), but that is the gist of the entry.

I also expect they'll start charging for documents sent via direct web links and links inside kindle books. Since both are gaping wide holes in the fees they claim they'll charge and are an avenue for people to keep getting those several MB/day news feeds for free. Technically both of these types of downloads are even against the user's agreement, but are obviously (or were) condoned by Amazon or they would not work (which is what happens if you try to download music this way).

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

...
The way certain people are talking and reacting to this news leads me to think they don't understand it. Amazon is not charging $0.15 per megabyte to download books! They're not charging $0.15 per megabyte to use the web! They're only charging $0.15 per megabyte to use their email document conversion service wirelessly....

Count me in among the dense crowd. Your explanation is clearer than Amazon's, and hopefully accurate.

Granted, I only glanced at the explanation. But, really, it's up to Amazon to allow for user denseness and state their policy a bit more clearly.

After all, they really must think we are dense, and might be offended by what we find when we type "dildo" in the Search box. So they filter our results, without telling us (because we are too dense grasp the reasons), that they are hiding some results....

[badgoodDeb]

Originally Posted by chilady1

So to be clear, does this mean if I purchase a book from Fictionwise (which I do quite often) and have it sent to Amazon to send to my K2 wirelessly, the charge will now be 0.15 cents per megabyte?

I believe the answer is YES.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by chilady1

So to be clear, does this mean if I purchase a book from Fictionwise (which I do quite often) and have it sent to Amazon to send to my K2 wirelessly, the charge will now be 0.15 cents per megabyte?

Yes, if you send it to Amazon to send wirelessly. No, if you save download the book directly from the website via the Kindle's browser (not sure if this is possible with Fictionwise but the principle works), or if you download to your PC and copy the files to your Kindle via USB.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by koland

I also expect they'll start charging for documents sent via direct web links and links inside kindle books. Since both are gaping wide holes in the fees they claim they'll charge and are an avenue for people to keep getting those several MB/day news feeds for free. Technically both of these types of downloads are even against the user's agreement, but are obviously (or were) condoned by Amazon or they would not work (which is what happens if you try to download music this way).

They'd have to charge for all web traffic if they start doing that, since you can't really tell an ebook from any other data stream reliably. And Amazon *does* reserve the right to do that in the future, but they aren't yet even via this latest announcement.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

They'd have to charge for all web traffic if they start doing that, since you can't really tell an ebook from any other data stream reliably. And Amazon *does* reserve the right to do that in the future, but they aren't yet even via this latest announcement.

"Amazon *does* reserve the right to do that in the future...." !!!!!

Hey, do you actually spend your day studying Amazon's Kindle documentation and updates?! This is some pretty intimate knowledge!

You are not part of a "guerilla" squad of Amazonians, are you

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

No, but I'm a longtime Amazon customer since they started and they gave me a very nice credit card so there's a lot of loyalty built up there.

I've been a customer since the site was just a text list of book titles and ISBN numbers, so I'm at least equal to you on that, but I still find some of their recent moves disturbing. Everything they're doing to try to monopolize the American ebook market, even to the point of denying Kindle owners the right to buy ebooks from one of their own subsidiaries, tells me that Amazon is well on the path to becoming evil.

I'll be very careful what and when I buy from them from now on, you can believe that.

[koland]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

They'd have to charge for all web traffic if they start doing that, since you can't really tell an ebook from any other data stream reliably. And Amazon *does* reserve the right to do that in the future, but they aren't yet even via this latest announcement.

Since all traffic goes thru the proxy servers, watching for, logging (and charging) for "books" or other documents via the web services is a simple programming excercise.

I really don't have much problem with their charges (and at least you have to authorize the senders, unlike the per-msg text message "plans" that most carriers force you to get by default, forcing you to pay for spam and "wrong" numbers that have "interesting" proposals).

For those that asked, yes all emails will count as personal docs, since technically they convert the MOBI and PRC files to AZW (and add metadata to indicate it is a personal document). Baen and Fictionwise would both be affected.

However, for books, it's not much of a charge (most are under 15 cents, some might be thirty, few above that). It's the RSS feeds daily that would hurt (USA Today plus the Washington Post would be 45 cents a day). The monthly charge for that, one weekly and one monthly email is almost at the $15/month that Sprint charges for an unlimited data plan. I'd prefer the option to add my Kindle to my Sprint bill and not worry about the small charges (especially since I get a 23% discount). Those who use the service very little (or never, as some simply are not in whispernet range) could continue with the small charges per doc/mb.

Instead, I'll use the USB cable (or read on my new netbook) and let books pile up until I want to transfer them myself, rather than being lazy and sending them via email. For now, I'll quit using Instapaper (it already didn't handle some web pages and it won't let you send your daily feed to the free kindle address, only the pay address).

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by Sonist

"Amazon *does* reserve the right to do that in the future...." !!!!!

Hey, do you actually spend your day studying Amazon's Kindle documentation and updates?! This is some pretty intimate knowledge!

I read the agreement while my Kindle 2 was charging the first day I got it? It's right there under Wireless Connectivity.

I read the manual too. I know, I'm crazy!

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by khalleron

I've been a customer since the site was just a text list of book titles and ISBN numbers, so I'm at least equal to you on that, but I still find some of their recent moves disturbing. Everything they're doing to try to monopolize the American ebook market, even to the point of denying Kindle owners the right to buy ebooks from one of their own subsidiaries, tells me that Amazon is well on the path to becoming evil.

Yes, well, I also happily use Google (monopoly on the web search market), Microsoft (monopoly on the PC OS market), etc. Ebooks were still on the path of obscurity before Amazon got involved; Windows 95 was key in making the Internet easily accessible to the masses; Google made it possible to actually grok the huge amount of information available on the web.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by koland

Since all traffic goes thru the proxy servers, watching for, logging (and charging) for "books" or other documents via the web services is a simple programming excercise.

Until the format of those "books" changes and they now look like something else. Or we just start looking at stuff straight off of web pages. Data is data; you can't really distinguish types without understanding. You can make automated guesses based on commonly agreed upon formats, but fooling such systems is trivial.