Best way to do three-line space/pause, for accessibility?

[bookman156]

I assume it must have in fact been the appropriate semantic element

The point is that it's visible, so of course is appropriate semantically, whereas an invisible hr rule with margin isn't.

[phillipgessert]

Semantics has nothing to do with what is shown. It is strictly in the markup, where appropriate tags are selected to express the structure of the document. Selecting a semantic element for its appearance, rather than its actual meaning, is a detriment to accessibility, worse than nothing at all. Like saying the grass is blue instead of declining to describe the grass in the first place.

hr, I would consider sort of a relatively uninformative semantic element anyway. And if you’re happy with it, I wouldn’t sweat it too much. But it is generally used to divide sections, so if this was all meant to improve accessibility, I’d call it a lateral move at best. Of course, none of us have seen the content. If you say it works for it, I believe you.

[bookman156]

And the zero width styling has nothing to do with semantics, so you landed at basically the exact accessibility solution you initially rejected.

Maybe not to do with semantics, but certainly a fudge I didn't think acceptable. I didn't want to use a hr rule, I wanted a space. But I couldn't do that so I styled the hr to be the equivalent of what I was saying with the space. In retrospect, probably better for ereaders for the sighted too.

[bookman156]

I thought the hr tag had been redefined in HTML5 so it could be used for transition?

[bookman156]

so if this was all meant to improve accessibility, I’d call it a lateral move at best.

How can that be so if the blind now don't have separated bits of text run into one?

[bookman156]

<hr> — was horizontal rule, now used for a paragraph-level thematic break in text

From: http://html5doctor.com/small-hr-element/

It's not me who makes the rules, I just work around them!

[phillipgessert]

Right, what I’m saying is that I didn’t understand these to be section breaks, as commonly expressed via a rule or fleuron, options dismissed in the opening post. Resolving an issue of semantics for the blind by modifying the original idea to make it more visible is interesting to me, but I’m good with simply celebrating the win.

[bookman156]

They are definitely not section breaks. They are just small spaces between short note-like pieces of text. Visually, the way they are styled, gives this impression. Fleurons as such are too old-fashioned, full rules too much of a cut off. In print, space is good enough. But I'm assured not good enough digitally for the blind who would have the text all run together. So I have catered for the blind and made it aesthetically okay for the sighted.

What else could I have done? That's what i was asking at the beginning. There were no real answers, and I'm not going to put three asterisks in and make it look like a glorious amateur job.

[phillipgessert]

Maybe you can share an example so we can better understand the nature of these transitions.

[bookman156]

Sure, attached.

[bookman156]

Some are aphoristic, as above, others are longer lengths of text.

[phillipgessert]

Those are ok as section breaks and the hr is fine. I realize you don’t consider them that way, and as sections go they are certainly very short; but from the perspective of formatting a document, that’s pretty close. That or the entire thing being an unordered list. I could also see calling each one a blockquote.

[bookman156]

It couldn't be an unordered list as some go on for several pages.

A blockquote is an interesting idea, but they're not actually quotes so I find that a bit odd. Do you think that's an okay method to separate note-like pieces of text?

[phillipgessert]

There is nothing about a list item that says it cannot be lengthy. Strictly talking about semantics, a list is just a group of related items. I agree blockquote is perhaps a stretch, but it’s one I might use for a “saying,” and a lot of times you just settle to the nearest element you can. You can also look at other block-level elements commonly used to parent other elements, like <section>. But again I think your example is a fine one for hr, you could do a lot worse.

[bookman156]

I'll bear that in mind about list items. I've never used them for anything other than standard short lists and navigation, but for textual display that's an interesting one worth looking at.

Cheers for your view on my use of hr, I don't feel like I'm bastardising principle now.