What does "well-read" mean?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by barryem

Actually the early Christians ignored the Old Testament until they began to realize that being part of a new religion caused them problems with the Romans

Barry

Sorry, rubbish. Read your church history. All but Luke of New Testament writers were Jewish and Luke was a convert to Judaism before being a Christian.

It wasn't until the Roman Empire adopted Christianity that it started to sever Jewish roots, which never involved ignoring the Old Testament. Then the Church split into Western Rome, Eithiopean, Asia, Eastern Orthodox and Coptic.
Christ is the Passover lamb. You need the Old Testament to understand it.
The Eastern Orthodox Church deliberately arranged Passover /Easter to NEVER fall on the Jewish passover. Jews and Rome used a different calendar so Easter and Passover often didn't coincide. There was later the Gregorian Calendar and the Roman Church revised how Easter was calculated.

There was never a time when any branch of Christians ignored the Old Testament. Though they have different arrangements of books, and which are Canonical and Deutro-Canonical, differing from the Hebrew bible. The Main Greek Old Testament used by ALL the Christian churches, either entirely or to make Latin versions or help translation from Hebrew to current languages is a Jewish translation from Hebrew. Though most of the Book of Daniel is in Aramaic, which is similar to Hebrew.

The Christian Churches today and over the last 1960 odd years vary in how much weight they apply to things in the OT vs the NT.

Paul, a Jewish Religion expert, wrote in the NT "Christ is a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks" [i.e. Gentiles, pagans, the not Jews]. A large part of the NT is his letters. Also almost nothing in the NT makes sense without Jewish context and the OT writing.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

Re Thomas Hardy. We were forced to analyse his books in Secondary School (Ages 11-16). This ended up with me and the rest of the class disliking his books.

Hardy has been a favorite of mine since my teens when I read "Jude the Obscure". If I recall correctly I didn't know who Hardy was at the time or that the book was considered a classic. I found it in a 2nd hand book store and read the back and it sounded like a fun read. And it was. He wrote some really good stories.

The book I learned to hate in high school was "Silas Marner". I'm not sure why. I know I resented having to read it for some reason and that probably soured me on it. I re-read it about 7 or 8 years ago and loved it.

I read mostly because I love stories. I do appreciate good writing and I enjoy character development but stories are the real reason I read. I enjoy Hardy's stories. When I don't find a good story I often lose interest.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm not sure where you read this theory. Certainly, the founding figures of Christianity were well aware of that it was a Jewish offshoot, though it's quite possible many of the adherents were not. The early Christian church was more of a loose collection of individual churches with many individual writings and beliefs. The early history of the church is an interesting and fairly controversial subject.

I read this years ago and I'm not real sure where I read it but what comes to mind when I try to recall is "Jews, God and History" by Max I. Dimont. But I'm not sure.

It might also have been from one of the TTC lectures or one of the books by Bart Ehrman.

I did a lot of reading about the history of Christianity in the 1960s and 70s and then again about 20 years ago. This was mostly from a historical perspective as I'm Jewish. I haven't read that much since then on the topic so it's a bit of a blur.

Barry

[barryem]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Sorry, rubbish. Read your church history. All but Luke of New Testament writers were Jewish and Luke was a convert to Judaism before being a Christian.

In the early days of Christianity it was spread initially by a few people who travelled to pagan places to "spread the gospel". The stuff they spread bore little resemblance to the Christianity we know today. Read up on the Gnostics for a good example of that. And the Gnostics were the majority sect of Christianity before Constantine.

It was only in the 4th century that what we know as Christianity now began to form.

Barry

[issybird]

Originally Posted by barryem

Hardy has been a favorite of mine since my teens when I read "Jude the Obscure". If I recall correctly I didn't know who Hardy was at the time or that the book was considered a classic. I found it in a 2nd hand book store and read the back and it sounded like a fun read. And it was.

A. Fun. Read. Jude the Obscure!

Jude is the single most depressing book I’ve read in my entire life. A fun read! “Done because we are too menny.”

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by barryem

The book I learned to hate in high school was "Silas Marner". I'm not sure why. I know I resented having to read it for some reason and that probably soured me on it. I re-read it about 7 or 8 years ago and loved it.

George Eliot really was well-read. It is impossible to be well-read in that way, in our time, because too many outstanding books are in print (or available as eBooks).

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by barryem

I read mostly because I love stories. I do appreciate good writing and I enjoy character development but stories are the real reason I read. I enjoy Hardy's stories. When I don't find a good story I often lose interest.

Barry

I am much the same. I have to be careful when tidying the code in eBooks as if I am not careful the story can start to suck me in

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by barryem

I read this years ago and I'm not real sure where I read it but what comes to mind when I try to recall is "Jews, God and History" by Max I. Dimont. But I'm not sure.

It might also have been from one of the TTC lectures or one of the books by Bart Ehrman.

I did a lot of reading about the history of Christianity in the 1960s and 70s and then again about 20 years ago. This was mostly from a historical perspective as I'm Jewish. I haven't read that much since then on the topic so it's a bit of a blur.

Barry

I've read a fair number of Bart Ehrman's books (interesting stuff), so I don't think it was from there.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I've read a fair number of Bart Ehrman's books (interesting stuff), so I don't think it was from there.

Erhman teaches here at UNC-Chapel Hill where I've lived since 1999. My wife was a religious studies major and he nearly destroyed the department when he was chair. My wife had to switch majors because so many professors in her field left during his time. He is, a phenomenal writer and a decent orator, but he is just not a pleasant person AT ALL. He used to get a great deal of glee from getting 18 and 19-year-old freshman to question their lifetimes of belief. That always bothered me when I was a professor.

[Back on Topic]
I think I really like Arthur C. Clarke's philosophy and I apply it to my reading:

In my life I have found two things of priceless worth - learning and loving. Nothing else - no fame, not power, not achievement for its own sake - can possibly have the same lasting value.

So I may not be well read in the sense that I read broadly enough to encompass everything (you'll never catch me with YA or romance), but if I am learning from or loving what I am reading, I am content.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

He used to get a great deal of glee from getting 18 and 19-year-old freshman to question their lifetimes of belief. That always bothered me when I was a professor.

For me, that questioning of beliefs was one of the best parts of university. The professor I remember most for that was very fond of quoting Socrates's "The unexamined life is not worth living". He did not insist that your beliefs were wrong but he did want you to look at why you held those beliefs. Some of my beliefs survived the test, others were discarded. In the decades since, I have rechecked my beliefs and again discarded some that no longer fitted with whom I think I am.

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

So I may not be well read in the sense that I read broadly enough to encompass everything (you'll never catch me with YA or romance), but if I am learning from or loving what I am reading, I am content.

I must admit to willing to at least start reading almost anything including some YA and romance thanks to my children and wife for their recommendations. Some of the recommendations ended in the DNF pile while others I found myself enjoying. Does this keep me from being "well-read"? I'm not sure since I haven't finished reading yet.

There were other diversions such as when I was reading H. Beam Piper's Junkyard Planet and got diverted into reading a good chunk of James Branch Cabell's works. At times, I found myself agreeing with the judge in the obscenity trial for Jurgen that "it is doubtful if the book could be read or understood at all by more than a very limited number of readers."

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by DNSB

For me, that questioning of beliefs was one of the best parts of university. The professor I remember most for that was very fond of quoting Socrates's "The unexamined life is not worth living". He did not insist that your beliefs were wrong but he did want you to look at why you believed in those beliefs. Some of my beliefs survived the test, others were discarded.

That is fine if it was what you wanted. But he took joy in upsetting people. He was not helping them examine their life. He was not teaching. He was just a wrecking ball. And clearly, as his behavior ran off many of his colleagues, they felt the same way I did.

I must admit to willing to at least start reading almost anything including some YA and romance thanks to my children and wife for their recommendations. Some of the recommendations ended in the DNF pile while others I found myself enjoying. Does this keep me from being "well-read"? I'm not sure since I haven't finished reading yet.

I will make exceptions for things my wife asks me to read - happy wife, happy life.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

That is fine if it was what you wanted. But he took joy in upsetting people. He was not helping them examine their life. He was not teaching. He was just a wrecking ball. And clearly, as his behavior ran off many of his colleagues, they felt the same way I did.

It was not what I wanted but then I was at university to learn. What I may not have made clear is that my opinion is that guiding students to examine their beliefs is not evil per se. The professor I had was not a wrecking ball though the end result may have been the same in having the student question their beliefs. Decades later, I still find myself asking "why do I believe this?"

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

I will make exceptions for things my wife asks me to read - happy wife, happy life.

Truth!

“Faith strikes me as intellectual laziness.” ― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

[janrey]

Well read is a term usually used to describe a person knowledgeable through reading in either one subject or many. A person may be described as well read in literature or well read in ancient and modern history.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DNSB

It was not what I wanted but then I was at university to learn. What I may not have made clear is that my opinion is that guiding students to examine their beliefs is not evil per se. The professor I had was not a wrecking ball though the end result may have been the same in having the student question their beliefs. Decades later, I still find myself asking "why do I believe this?"



Truth!

“Faith strikes me as intellectual laziness.” ― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

At one time, universities were suppose to expose students to a wide array of thoughts and give them the framework to question and evaluate competing ideas. Alas, it appears these days universities are suppose to establish safe zones, never expose their students to competing ideas and above all, to teach them to never question the current orthodoxy.

[barryem]

Originally Posted by issybird

A. Fun. Read. Jude the Obscure!

Jude is the single most depressing book I’ve read in my entire life. A fun read! “Done because we are too menny.”

It was a depressing book in many ways but the story was beautiful and the characters were lifelike. That's what I look for in a book. Maybe "fun" was the wrong word but not so very wrong. I enjoy a good story.

Barry