What are options for this circumstance?

[binaryhermit]

I think it's the big screen, the Kindle 3 can have free 3g as well but isn't worth nearly as much.

And I think the older kindles only support older versions of https that are largely dropped at this point

[Quoth]

Though if you have the proper reading classes as per professional eye test, the 7" @ 300 dpi screen on the Kobo Libra is far better than the DXG 9.7" @ 150 dpi. The Libra manages larger page size PDFs more readible and far faster than the DXG. So while it's possible people are buying really just for the 9.7" screen, it suggests that maybe they haven't used 300 dpi screens or seen the 6.8" H2O (original is about 260 dpi?) or the rather better 7" Libra @ 300 dpi.
I might have liked a Forma, but it is €100 more and I find the DXG too big for reading novels. A DXG sized ereader with touch and keyboard @ 300 dpi and for under €300 would be nice for PDFs. The 10" eink I've looked at seem too expensive and a bit flakey SW wise, I'd want an Amazon or Kobo one.

[JSWolf]

The problem as I see it is the DX is obsolete rubbish. It's a 9.7" screen with very old software. It's not worth much. I would rather spend the extra on a Kobo Forma.

[binaryhermit]

I'm not gonna disagree about it being obsolete, 3g only, 150 PPI, no frontlight, ancient software.

That said, what else is there with a 9.7" screen?

But people will pay insane amounts of money for one, so...

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

I'm not gonna disagree about it being obsolete, 3g only, 150 PPI, no frontlight, ancient software.

That said, what else is there with a 9.7" screen?

But people will pay insane amounts of money for one, so...

9.7" screens are dead. But you can get a 10.3" screen such as the Onyx Boox Note 2. Or an 8" screen such as the Kobo Forma. So there are other options that do not include buying an obsolete waste of money.

[binaryhermit]

Rule #1 of working retail: People are stupid.

EDIT: Some people. Not all.

[radius]

Originally Posted by Dabcar

We are hoping to provide ebooks for a smallish interest-group community via our website. We won't be publishing the ebooks via any of the major ebook outlets. Those downloading these ebooks will possibly have various devices.

If you are offering downloads and need cross platform compatibility, I would go against the grain here and suggest you offer PDF only.

But the key is I would offer two versions. One, a "standard" size for large screens, where the PDF is formatted for the regular sheet of paper as most people expect, and the other a "mobile" size formatted to be legible on small screens (ie: maybe "printed" to a smaller page size, larger text-to-page width ratio, smaller margins, no header/footer or page number etc)

This is because, as is apparent throughout this thread, if your audience isn't reading ebooks already, the tech support requirements will likely be overwhelming, whereas just about any PC, phone, tablet and most ereaders can cope with downloading and viewing PDF.

[Quoth]

Have you tried this distribution method?

You can't read a PDF book on phone. A leaflet maybe. A web site works better!
Also people will download the wrong one.

[radius]

Originally Posted by Quoth

You can't read a PDF book on phone. A leaflet maybe. A web site works better!

I'm trying to figure out how a web site renders better on a phone than a small-screen-formatted PDF and I can't see the difference. Can you tell me what you mean?

As far as I can tell, both will be infinite scroll and not paged, neither lets you change the font size but rather let you pinch to zoom and then scroll around, both are supported out of the box on just about all phones. Neither will allow you to annotate, sync reading location or bookmark.

I have read novels in PDF from Feedbooks back around ten-ish years ago when they used to let you choose a small-screen format, and it didn't bother me even if it wasn't perfect (but as someone who has had Palm, WinCE, Psion, Rocket and even Franklin devices I'm not a natural PDF consumer).

[Quoth]

Which size of phone would you format the PDF for? Whereas a decent Website is as "Responsive" as Mobi, AZW/KF8 or ePub2 to the size of screen.

[DaleDe]

I would format a PDF to 1/2 A size for use in the majority of products. It is a reasonable size that relates to paperback books (8.5" x 5.5"). It provides a compromise between changing the page too often and convenience size for smaller screens, particular if you can rotate the screen.

Dale

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by radius

I'm trying to figure out how a web site renders better on a phone than a small-screen-formatted PDF and I can't see the difference. Can you tell me what you mean?

What? Because it's responsive, like most modern sites are. Hell, mine is (in my sig, I think), for viewing on a phone. About...7-8 years ago, I tried to find a menu on a restaurant website, [to order some food to be ready when I arrived 30 mins later] more year-2000-ish than year-2013-enabled, and I was infuriated at how horrible it was to find, navigate and VIEW on a smartphone. (Which, coincidentally, was...you guessed it, a PDF!).

I don't get to use my phone much, as my home and office are both surrounded by very nearby mountains, so my signal's been nearly unusable for dog's years. Until that day, I didn't realize how important responsiveness is, but it is.

As far as I can tell, both will be infinite scroll and not paged, neither lets you change the font size but rather let you pinch to zoom and then scroll around, both are supported out of the box on just about all phones. Neither will allow you to annotate, sync reading location or bookmark.

No..I'm sorry, but pinch-zooming websites is literally 20 years old as a viewing method. I really don't think you're going to find a lot of (successful) pinch-zoom, non-responsive websites still hanging around. Those that are responsive do a BOATLOAD more than pinch-zoom, in this day and age. Maybe you just don't realize what's happening in the background, when you view websites on your phone?

Heck, maybe you're exactly like me and you don't really browse the Net much on your phone? I don't--that's why it took me forever to 'get it' around responsiveness, which is pretty damned dumb for someone whose website is fundamental to the success of her biz. DUUUH.

I have read novels in PDF from Feedbooks back around ten-ish years ago when they used to let you choose a small-screen format, and it didn't bother me even if it wasn't perfect (but as someone who has had Palm, WinCE, Psion, Rocket and even Franklin devices I'm not a natural PDF consumer).

Well, I would lose my mind if I had to pinch-zoom, pan-scan, read; pan-scan-read; pan-scan-read; turn page, pinch-zoom, pan-scan, read....lather rinse repeat through 300-400 pages. I don't mind it for 5 pages, if it's non-fiction or whatever, but reading a book that way, for hundreds of pages? You must have a high tolerance for gross inconvenience. Once you realize what a responsive website is/does, and what a PDF doesn't (the latter of which you obviously already do)--not to mention, reflowable eBooks--the difference is pretty huge.

Originally Posted by Quoth

Which size of phone would you format the PDF for? Whereas a decent Website is as "Responsive" as Mobi, AZW/KF8 or ePub2 to the size of screen.

Yes, that's my question. Size of a Fire 10"? A Paperwhite? Or, a Samsung Note 10? iPhone? That's a lotta different options and you know that whatever you choose, it'll be wrong.

Not to mention, how are they GETTING the PDF on their devices? I mean, to circle back a bit here--if they want to read that on their Kindles, now you got a whole 'other rodeo going on, amirite?

Hitch

[JSWolf]

If the books can be dome reflowable, forget PDF even exists. PDF is NOT an eBook format.

[radius]

Originally Posted by Hitch

No..I'm sorry, but pinch-zooming websites is literally 20 years old as a viewing method. I really don't think you're going to find a lot of (successful) pinch-zoom, non-responsive websites still hanging around. Those that are responsive do a BOATLOAD more than pinch-zoom, in this day and age. Maybe you just don't realize what's happening in the background, when you view websites on your phone?

I understand that. My point was that, just like PDF, you are at the mercy of the web designer for the font size displayed on your mobile device (unless they have thoughfully provided a little font shrink/grow control for you). At least, I can't see any way to do it on mobile Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

Yes, that's my question. Size of a Fire 10"? A Paperwhite? Or, a Samsung Note 10? iPhone? That's a lotta different options and you know that whatever you choose, it'll be wrong.

Maybe. But the way I would do it is one sized for a 7 inch screen, meant to be usable from 6" phone to 7 or 8" reader/tablet. And then another for 10" screen and up.

Not to mention, how are they GETTING the PDF on their devices? I mean, to circle back a bit here--if they want to read that on their Kindles, now you got a whole 'other rodeo going on, amirite?

Admittedly, I was imagining most people would read on a phone or iPad (much more common than ereaders out there, and this looked like a general audience), where a simple web link would work for download and display.

For Kindle, that's much more your bailiwick than mine, but I would guess download then email as personal document would be easiest? At worst, sideloaded PDFs should be fine.

I'm not some PDF apologist; I just think it's the least-worst alternative for a general audience as they already have all the tools to read them without extra installs and downloads and registration etc.

[Quoth]

No, PDFs are the worst on 10" and less screens. Sometimes on less than 14".
Also on phone / tablet it's no harder to download an epub than a PDF. Loads of free apps for every platform, some good ones on them all. You'd need to download a PDF reader ANYWAY, for many phones/tablets, and curiously the best ones for Android do epub viewing even better, and some of those are on iOS too.

It's an extremely badly made web site that doesn't work on an arbitrary sized screen better than a PDF.
Anyway from good to bad:
ePub -> web site -> pdf.
A kindle azw3/KF8 is close to an epub with an Amazon wrapper, mainly to add optional DRM.

No matter what it is, apart from a Web site, you need to learn how to download. It's actually sensible even on a PC to disable viewing PDF, ePub, MS Doc etc IN a web page, and insist the Browser only offers to download anything not a webpage.