Will Nook be sold to Rakuten Kobo?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Those are not things bookshops can decide to do.
They can't just sell eBooks without DRM, that is up to the publishers.

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

They can refuse to sell DRM encumbered ebooks.

So publishers should cater to a market that doesn't exist because it will continue not to exist if the publishers don't change their business model? And we're talking about the same publishers that already don't prioritize ebooks?

Look, I don't care for DRM either. You'd likely be hard pressed to find any customer that prefers DRM.

But your solutions are non-solutions.

If local bookstores that currently don't sell ebooks banded together and started selling ebooks protected by Adobe DRM and people like you refused to purchase from them because of it, you would only be doing Amazon a favor.

[bookyboy]

How about Kobo software on Nook hardware?

That’s my dream. :-)

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by bookyboy

How about Kobo software on Nook hardware?

That’s my dream. :-)

Unfortunately when Kobo took over Tolino, what they got was Tolino software on Kobo hardware. But hopefully a Kobo/Nook deal would do the opposite

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by bookyboy

How about Kobo software on Nook hardware?

That’s my dream. :-)

Last I heard, Nook and Kobo readers are both from Netronix. Just different RFPs leading to different designs.
(Haven't check the latest versions but I doubt either has changed their chinese supplier.)

The software comes from different outfits so it might be possible, but again, since Kobo ADEPT ebooks run fine on Nooks they don't have to do (or spend) anything. In fact, a lot of Nook reader owners have moved to Kobo already without Kobo having to lift a finger.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

So publishers should cater to a market that doesn't exist because it will continue not to exist if the publishers don't change their business model? And we're talking about the same publishers that already don't prioritize ebooks?

Look, I don't care for DRM either. You'd likely be hard pressed to find any customer that prefers DRM.

But your solutions are non-solutions.

Fortunately I'm not in charge of any major publisher, nor any bookshop.

I was hoping someone would have good ideas as to how physical bookshops, even single ones could sell books better and also sell ebooks instore. Selling ebooks online is simple. Also some ideas for the big 5 publishers. Otherwise Amazon will completely own the market from Content to Sales cutting out the big publishers and local retail. They completely dominate Online paper already and even more so ereaders and most of all the ebooks.

Some small Indy publishers are doing good things with POD, direct distribution of paper versions, free ebook with paper purchase, no DRM, distribution to ALL ebook sellers, no exclusive deals with Amazon.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Fortunately I'm not in charge of any major publisher, nor any bookshop.

I was hoping someone would have good ideas as to how physical bookshops, even single ones could sell books better and also sell ebooks instore. Selling ebooks online is simple. Also some ideas for the big 5 publishers. Otherwise Amazon will completely own the market from Content to Sales cutting out the big publishers and local retail. They completely dominate Online paper already and even more so ereaders and most of all the ebooks.

Some small Indy publishers are doing good things with POD, direct distribution of paper versions, free ebook with paper purchase, no DRM, distribution to ALL ebook sellers, no exclusive deals with Amazon.

Over on his website Dean Wesley Smith has documented how his bookstore runs. Worth a look. It's not stuck in the dated "stock it and they will come" mode. He sells online (via Amazon) and on-site, for example. Lots of other moves. Most especially, he sells what his customers buy, not what publishers pay him to promote.

As for Indie publishers, there is no single model that works for everybody, or many, or even more than one. Some make more money off KU than they used to make going wide, some make more at Nook than at Kindle (seriously. Apparently, less competition works better for them.), some rave about D2D or Xinxii for going wide, some prefer Smashwords. And some get good results off POD while others don't. Some are new to publishing, some are tradpub refugees with dozens of reverted titles, and some are hybrids doing both tradpub and indie. Some do everything themselves (especially if they're good artists) while some just contract a bunch of professionals, freelancers.

The results can be good, bad, or indiferent, just as for tradpub.
Because in the end it is the readers who make the final decision.

No magic bullets for authors, publishers, or booksellers.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

They can refuse to sell DRM encumbered ebooks.

Or they could just not sell eBooks, which is what they do now.
What benefit is there to them to selling eBooks anyway?
a) Who wants to go to a physical store to buy digital goods anyway, the idea just frankly seems silly.
b) They are just cannibalizing sales from someone who has chosen to come into the store, presumably hoping to buy a pBook from them.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Or they could just not sell eBooks, which is what they do now.
What benefit is there to them to selling eBooks anyway?
a) Who wants to go to a physical store to buy digital goods anyway, the idea just frankly seems silly.
b) They are just cannibalizing sales from someone who has chosen to come into the store, presumably hoping to buy a pBook from them.

Or, they could sell pbooks in-store (and online, which many b&m stores do on the side), and ebooks online. Support whatever the reader likes.

Powell's does in-store and online, they used to do pbooks pre-Agency.
(I bought from them in the PDA era.)

Selling books is hard but it's way harder if you dig in on the old ways and don't adapt to the times and don't use all available channels.

https://www.powells.com

Today selling ebooks is too tied to the walled gardens to make much money off white label sites, but it used to be profitable before agency. A Kobo partnership isn't necessarily bad. At least you get some money from people who wouldn't be coming to the store.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

a) Who wants to go to a physical store to buy digital goods anyway, the idea just frankly seems silly.
b) They are just cannibalizing sales from someone who has chosen to come into the store, presumably hoping to buy a pBook from them.

a) Not everyone has internet, or WiFi, or ability or desire to make online payments, or is an adult. It's a niche market, but significant. They might even have been given an ereader as a present or want to read on the phone at the bus stop, on the tube etc.

b) Some bookshops sell stationary, books, audio books (in the past, Amazon's Audible has killed physical and non-Amazon download audio books, only podcasts survive), newspapers, toys etc. Selling ebooks instore too isn't cannibalizing sales, but selling an ebook reader that has someone else's store portal is cannibalizing future sales, hence Waterstones dropping Kindle. I can't see why they thought that was a good idea.

I don't know how a bookshop should change, but the old model is doomed. Internet Only can't compete with Amazon.

If a Nook is used more to read content NOT bought in Barnes & Noble, it's a doubtful product. They'd be better selling ebooks for ANY app or ereader.

Also only a minority of ebook reading is on dedicated ereader devices, mostly eink based. The biggest market is phone users.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

a) Not everyone has internet, or WiFi, or ability or desire to make online payments, or is an adult. It's a niche market, but significant. They might even have been given an ereader as a present or want to read on the phone at the bus stop, on the tube etc.

b) Some bookshops sell stationary, books, audio books (in the past, Amazon's Audible has killed physical and non-Amazon download audio books, only podcasts survive), newspapers, toys etc. Selling ebooks instore too isn't cannibalizing sales, but selling an ebook reader that has someone else's store portal is cannibalizing future sales, hence Waterstones dropping Kindle. I can't see why they thought that was a good idea.

I don't know how a bookshop should change, but the old model is doomed. Internet Only can't compete with Amazon.

If a Nook is used more to read content NOT bought in Barnes & Noble, it's a doubtful product. They'd be better selling ebooks for ANY app or ereader.

Also only a minority of ebook reading is on dedicated ereader devices, mostly eink based. The biggest market is phone users.

A- Libraries offer internet access to those without. Rechargeable credit cards serve those without bank accounts. Last XMAS I gifted one to a tween with a Nintendo. She was thrilled. Her own bank card! It's the 21st century out there. Bookstores stuck in 19th century thinking are definitely doomed. Go find me drives, notwithstanding.

B- Some folks simply don't read enough to justify a reader or tablet and find phone screens too small. If you only read sporadically or are deep set in your ways, pbooks are just fine. Sure, most recreational readinggenres have gone heavily digital but that is the avid readers at work. Casual readers, doing one or two books a year are happy enough with pbooks and, boy are they legion.

The problem for B&M stores is that in most areas casual readers alone can't support an old school bookstore. Not with pharmacies, Costco, and newstands around, all pedlling the same mix of new releases that casuals buy. That's where adding used books, online sales, and modern marketing comes in. That is also why Waterstones got rid of front table payola. You can't survive pushing the exact same books that can be found everywhere. You can survive if you expand your appeal to your local market and/or expand your reach via online. Preferably both.

B&M stores can and will survive...if they adapt.
Many are but not all.

[MGlitch]

Let’s be honest eink ereaders and digital reading in general is still relatively niche. The group described as unable/unwilling to buy through one device is a niche group of a niche group and as time goes on and technology spreads it will become even smaller. It’s not a group that’s going to give a store the sales it needs in order to make such a system worth it. Again I point out BN has this already and it is so under utilized that they don’t bother training new employees how to do it.

[Quoth]

"A- Libraries offer internet access to those without"
1) Here that only seems to work on a laptop or the library computer. You can't connect on a Kobo or a Kindle. I've not tried my phone or tablet. I think due to the web based login using the library card and no WiFi password. Or something. Also the local council and library logs all activity.
2) Such payment cards are not in all countries and can be bureaucratic where they do exist to comply with local anti-money-laundering regulations.

"Let’s be honest eink ereaders and digital reading in general is still relatively niche"
Yes, and most digital reading is on phones. For convenience as people already have one and it takes less space and they always take it out. That's still an undeveloped market not locked to one ebook retailer.

Hence my thesis that it's madness for a bookshop to sell Kindle, Kobo, or if not B&N, the Nook. A bookshop, if selling ebooks at all, needs to make them available to all platforms. They don't need their own app or own ereader. Waste of money and effort.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

If a Nook is used more to read content NOT bought in Barnes & Noble, it's a doubtful product. They'd be better selling ebooks for ANY app or ereader.

Which of course points out the flaw in your argument. Nooks should only sell books from B&N. Yet at the same time, you want every mom and pop shop to sell ebooks. What would they be read on? You don't expect every store sell their own device, do you? And as pointed out earlier, sideloading in store would suck.

Most folks on this site are readers, naturally. Primarily readers of ebooks. And most don't go to the book store like they used to. Somehow selling ebooks in a store would go nowhere. The little shops could sell them on their website maybe. But that would still require sideloading to some device or another.

a) Not everyone has internet, or WiFi, or ability or desire to make online payments, or is an adult. It's a niche market, but significant. They might even have been given an ereader as a present or want to read on the phone at the bus stop, on the tube etc.

I would guess the number of ebook readers who don't have access to internet is vanishingly small.

In the US, Nooks can access the internet in any B&N store. You can actually open and read any book for an hour in-store. If you had the desire, you could read an entire book, an hour a day. I thought this would be a killer feature on the Nook. If it weren't fumbled by B&N, maybe it would have been. At any rate, it wasn't enough to keep Nook competitive with Kindle.

Sometimes what seems like a great and obvious idea to you doesn't play out in the real world.

[Quoth]

The USA is less than 13% of the world's population.

Smashwords sells ebooks and they can be read on nearly anything. They also supply most other ebook retailers except Amazon and Google.
Some paper publishers include a free download ebook in Kindle or ePub.
My whole point is that ultimately trying to sell ebooks by having a tied ereader is a game only Amazon can win. Most ebooks are not read on eink, but phones and tablets via free apps, most will accept an ebook from any source.

"I would guess the number of ebook readers who don't have access to internet is vanishingly small."
Chicken and egg. You need Internet to register a Kobo or Kindle. You need the Internet to get content. Yet most ebooks are read on phones and tablets.

Plenty of people in the West don't have Internet. Even 10% is a lot of people. Then there is the 87% that are not in the USA or the majority not in Europe or North America.

Let's think about how everyone can have ebook access. Especially with libraries actually closing in the UK or non-existent in many countries!

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

The USA is less than 13% of the world's population.

Smashwords sells ebooks and they can be read on nearly anything. They also supply most other ebook retailers except Amazon and Google.
Some paper publishers include a free download ebook in Kindle or ePub.
My whole point is that ultimately trying to sell ebooks by having a tied ereader is a game only Amazon can win. Most ebooks are not read on eink, but phones and tablets via free apps, most will accept an ebook from any source.

"I would guess the number of ebook readers who don't have access to internet is vanishingly small."
Chicken and egg. You need Internet to register a Kobo or Kindle. You need the Internet to get content. Yet most ebooks are read on phones and tablets.

Plenty of people in the West don't have Internet. Even 10% is a lot of people. Then there is the 87% that are not in the USA or the majority not in Europe or North America.

Let's think about how everyone can have ebook access. Especially with libraries actually closing in the UK or non-existent in many countries!

You can't have it both ways, either "10% is still a lot of people" or "only 13% of the world live in the US".

This has also veered WAY off topic of this thread.