Indies and Kindle Unlimited

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

As long as you’re willing to cite Amazon with their even more restrictive set up. Which makes apple look like a slightly fenced yard.

You mean Fire tablets? They are not a commodity like iPhones are. Apple is getting sued, not Amazon.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

"Consider how Samsung copied Apple and eventually lost and had to pay huge fine"
Because the USPTO is broken and Apple is USA.
Samsung didn't in reality copy Apple.

If you actually study the case, Apple forced disclosure of a 100+ page Samsung internal development document where they systematically compared each element of the Apple and Samsung UIs and made recommendations of how to change Samsung's UI. And in most cases the answer was to change it to do what Apple did.
They did absolutely copy Apple's UI designs and concepts.
Whether that should have been something they could be sued for is a different issue.

Full report: http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/08/...yS1_review.pdf

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by leebase

What? You can buy books from any book store directly on an iPad or iPhone and read them in any app on the iPhone or iPad. Every ebook store and every library system is supported. Lots of Independant book apps as well that aren’t tied to stores.

You can’t buy books from Kobo or anywhere else on a Kindle.

Kindle tablets don’t have any other book store apps, or independant book apps available from the Amazon App Store. You have to install the google play store....something you have to research on the internet to find out about.

Now, now, mustn't challenge the narrative - Apple bad, Amazon good.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You cannot buy anything in an app unless you funnel the money through Apple. Apps with other payment options are not allowed.

Note that on Android, if you want your app to be available through Google Play, you have to have all in-app purchases go through Google ad give them their cut, just like with Apple. https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/
The difference of course is that you can make an app available outside of Google Play, which isn't possible with Apple.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I said it in private, but want to thank you here as well. Over christmas time I will have more time for reading due to less time at work. I think I will start with Starship's Mage and then still have the option to go chronological or stick with series. Granted, that is if the first book is engaging enough to continue.

That's odd. I haven't gotten a private message in 6 months. Hum...
Anyway, you are welcome. It's always nice to share about an author. He may not turn out to be your cup of tea, but that's fine too.

I read it a bit out of chronological sequence, which didn't bother me but might bother others. One of the fun things about finding a new author with a significant backlist is that you can then binge read.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

That's odd. I haven't gotten a private message in 6 months. Hum...
Anyway, you are welcome. It's always nice to share about an author. He may not turn out to be your cup of tea, but that's fine too.

I read it a bit out of chronological sequence, which didn't bother me but might bother others. One of the fun things about finding a new author with a significant backlist is that you can then binge read.

Yes, absolutely agree on the big backlist. I did not use a PM, I chose to do it through Karma and left my "thank you" there in the comment section. Making a forum post out of it was an attempt to get the thread back on track. We apparently cannot have a thread mentioning one of "KU", or "Apple", or "Amazon" without eventually side tracking and put all them terms together including "evil."

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Now, now, mustn't challenge the narrative - Apple bad, Amazon good.

My personal narrative is that neither are good or bad. Anybody who believes one is somehow "better" than the other (on some silly and irrelevant anthropomorphic morality scale) is merely engaging in tribalism.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Exactly. And that is the problem. It is inconvenient to be forced to get out of the app, buy in browser, and go back to app to read. Apple's Books app doesn't have to use the browser, everybody else does.

Not "Exactly" - you completely distorted the case. Every competing book store app is available via the Apple app store. All of them COULD if they chose, allow the purchasing of ebooks via their apps. One of mine chooses to do so.

If you want to sell digital goods but NOT through Apple's payment system (with Apple's cut)....you can do so via your website. Which all these companies already have. No special work needed for selling books on Apple's devices.

Meanwhile....the largest player in the market by far, Amazon, doesn't support ANY other book apps on their platforms.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You mean Fire tablets? They are not a commodity like iPhones are. Apple is getting sued, not Amazon.

They’re still engaged in the same practice if you find the practice abhorrent from one and not the other you’re just trying to be mad.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

They’re still engaged in the same practice if you find the practice abhorrent from one and not the other you’re just trying to be mad.

Apple has to finish their court first to set a precedent. One way or another that will decide if others (e.g. Amazon) might also get sued.

Leebase appeared clueless as to why Apple is getting sued anyway. Do I want Apple to lose? Of course I do, because that will also make other walled gardens more open. I would also like to be able to use other content on my Kindle, legally and easy without having to go through calibre. Very unlikely for both things to happen though.

Best case scenario would be to get rid of DRM for ebooks just like it is for music.

[leebase]

Anybody can sue. And, far from clueless, I am pointing out that the LARGEST BY FAR ebook platform provider....is completely closed. No other book stores allowed. Sure, you can buy a book from another store, remove the DRM (if you know how), convert it to Amazon's proprietary format, then side load the book (again, if you learn how).

Whereas on Apple's platform you can download any competing books store's app to read their books with their drm. You can purchase those books via the competing store's website. That is FAR BETTER.

What Apple is being sued for is not allowing any competing App stores. Amazon doesn't ALLOW this either. It's just that folks have figured out how to install the google play store on Amazon tablets seeing as, after all, it's an Android based tablet. But Amazon does nothing to facillitate this. You have to go into the settings to turn on "developer mode" - which opens up your device to malicous software.

People wrongly assume there are no legitimate reasons for Apple's approach beyond "Apple wants all the money for themselves". Apple controls the user experience and the security of their devices. Apple reviews all the code (both with tools and humans) before allowing it on the App store. Apple has a secure, easy to use payment system.

With everyone using the same secure, easy to use payment system, Apple has built the trust with it's users and developers are rewarded as Apple customers buy far more goods via the app store than Android even with Adroid's user base being 3 to 5 times larger.

Apple's method has built an ecosystem that generates more money for it's developers and partners than Android...not just more money for Apple.

Apple's market share is a lot smaller than Android's. There will be no successful "monopoly" claim.

Harm claim? The PUBG game famously created their own "app as app store" to get around Google Play's cut of the sale. They can't do that on iOS. And YET....PUBG delivered their app on iOS months before Android. Why? With a 30% hair cut and 1/5th of the install base -- why did PUBG spend their money to support Apple's platform first? Because PUBG will make more money catering to Apple customers than Android even so.

And what happened to their "our app as it's own app store" method to skate around Google Play Store? Was hit with malware on day one. Underscoring for the millionth time that Apple's platform is far more secure BECAUSE of Apple's restrictions.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Yes, absolutely agree on the big backlist. I did not use a PM, I chose to do it through Karma and left my "thank you" there in the comment section. Making a forum post out of it was an attempt to get the thread back on track. We apparently cannot have a thread mentioning one of "KU", or "Apple", or "Amazon" without eventually side tracking and put all them terms together including "evil."

Ah, ok, well thanks then. (Karma) Maybe in my next life, I'll have an even bigger library!

People will talk about what they want to talk about. It's not a bad thing and my original post was kind of open ended.

Based on how the music industry has gone to mostly subscription based services and tours rather than album sales, one can speculate that the book industry may eventually go in that direction. On the other hand, specific authors want to maximize their income in other manners, that's why I find the patreon approach interesting. I use patreon to support a few podcasters that I like. In the on going conversations about copyright, we discuss how authors get paid and this may be one way. Rather than depend on a few very wealthy individuals as patrons, it gets crowd sourced via platforms like patreon.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

My personal narrative is that neither are good or bad. Anybody who believes one is somehow "better" than the other (on some silly and irrelevant anthropomorphic morality scale) is merely engaging in tribalism.

Which is the point I was making.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Apple has to finish their court first to set a precedent. One way or another that will decide if others (e.g. Amazon) might also get sued.

Leebase appeared clueless as to why Apple is getting sued anyway. Do I want Apple to lose? Of course I do, because that will also make other walled gardens more open. I would also like to be able to use other content on my Kindle, legally and easy without having to go through calibre. Very unlikely for both things to happen though.

Best case scenario would be to get rid of DRM for ebooks just like it is for music.

Like I said, hold Amazon to that same standard, and it's fine. Leebase has already covered what I would have said about Amazon's closed ecosystem vs Apples.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Which is the point I was making.

Really? It seemed to me that the point you were trying to make was that there was an "Amazon good, Apple bad" narrative unfolding. I was making sure that nobody made the mistake of thinking that was MY narrative. That and making sure that people understand that someone choosing to not hate Amazon is not the same thing as saying "Amazon good."