Ask a publisher?

[radleyp]

You must be careful about making statements about the law on fair trade and pricing in the US. In the US, a manufacturer can set a "manufacturer's suggested list price": note that second word. The days when you could set a fixed retail price and refuse to sell to retailers who undercut it are long gone (and this is directly related to the growth of discount stores). The arguments for refusing to sell to a particular retailer are based on quality, type of store, level of merchandising, quality of display and customer base, not price. We have had cases where suppliers have refused to sell to discounters on account of price alone, and they are losers for the supplier.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by radleyp

You must be careful about making statements about the law on fair trade and pricing in the US. In the US, a manufacturer can set a "manufacturer's suggested list price": note that second word. The days when you could set a fixed retail price and refuse to sell to retailers who undercut it are long gone (and this is directly related to the growth of discount stores). The arguments for refusing to sell to a particular retailer are based on quality, type of store, level of merchandising, quality of display and customer base, not price. We have had cases where suppliers have refused to sell to discounters on account of price alone, and they are losers for the supplier.

Somehow, Apple is managing to enforce price discipline for their iPhone/Pod/Touch products. It doesn't seem possible to get them cheaper from one retailer than from another. It looks like Apple is adept at using all of the values above to insure retailers don't discount their products to prices below what others are charging. (And they're popular enough that the retailers may see no need to discount to get the sale, and use "loss-leader" prices on other products to get the customer in the door, where they might walk out with an Apple device at full retail while they're at it.)
______
Dennis

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by radleyp

You must be careful about making statements about the law on fair trade and pricing in the US. In the US, a manufacturer can set a "manufacturer's suggested list price": note that second word. The days when you could set a fixed retail price and refuse to sell to retailers who undercut it are long gone (and this is directly related to the growth of discount stores). The arguments for refusing to sell to a particular retailer are based on quality, type of store, level of merchandising, quality of display and customer base, not price. We have had cases where suppliers have refused to sell to discounters on account of price alone, and they are losers for the supplier.

I don't think so. Apple does it, Nintendo does it, MS does it with XBox. Even the generic "Best Buy" coupons I get for 10% of "electronics" excludes Apple and Nintendo products.

BOb

[radleyp]

This is not a matter of "I don't think so", it is the law today. There is no generally enforceable retail price point. There are many cases going back years on all this.

But there are ways around the law, though that depends on success and customer demand. Apple has an exclusivity deal with AT&T: such arrangements are perfectly legal for a set period of time (as you know, that has just been extended) and the parties can set the terms for themselves, as AT&T and Apple have done. Because there is great demand, the product sells at full price. Another way is to go the Nintendo way, which is to limit the amount that is offered for sale: since the demand for the Nintendo is also high, the retailer can actually get more. But this is a matter of customer demand, not price enforcement.

[cush]

Originally Posted by radleyp

This is not a matter of "I don't think so", it is the law today. There is no generally enforceable retail price point. There are many cases going back years on all this.

But there are ways around the law, though that depends on success and customer demand. Apple has an exclusivity deal with AT&T: such arrangements are perfectly legal for a set period of time (as you know, that has just been extended) and the parties can set the terms for themselves, as AT&T and Apple have done. Because there is great demand, the product sells at full price. Another way is to go the Nintendo way, which is to limit the amount that is offered for sale: since the demand for the Nintendo is also high, the retailer can actually get more. But this is a matter of customer demand, not price enforcement.

Could you speculate about why Apple products are not discounted? One authorized supplier that I have patronized (I'm a long time Mac user) says that they are bound by their dealer agreement with Apple not to discuss upcoming product releases beyond Apple's public statements but I've never been able to pin them down about price. I ask this because you seem knowledgeable in this area of the law.

[Alisa]

There's a difference between an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and agreeing to sell at a set price. I can't disclose certain things about my company's roadmap or our partners' but that's due to NDAs I signed on employment and for individual projects. I also cannot make certain stock purchases or sales while knowing these things or I can be charged with insider trading.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Hah! If only! We're paying £1.15 a litre; that's about US$8.70 per US gallon. You don't know when you're well off .

Yah but only takes a 1/2 gallon to drive across the UK

=X=

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by =X=

Yah but only takes a 1/2 gallon to drive across the UK

=X=

Only in a Prius ....
And even that would be between the Rivers Clyde and Forth...

Geoff
( I should know, I've got one.... )

[HarryT]

The death of the NBA certainly put a LOT of small independent booksellers out of business in the UK. 20 years ago virtually every town had small independent bookshops. These days the big chains (Waterstones, etc) dominate.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by =X=

Yah but only takes a 1/2 gallon to drive across the UK

=X=

You've never driven in the UK, I take it? It may look small on the map, but there are a LOT of roads. I drive over 30,000 miles a year.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The death of the NBA certainly put a LOT of small independent booksellers out of business in the UK. 20 years ago virtually every town had small independent bookshops. These days the big chains (Waterstones, etc) dominate.

There was discussion about this on 'You and Yours' (BBC Radio4) yesterday - they agreed about NBA, and also pointed out that supermarkets had moved into discounted book sales too (e.g. Asda selling Potter for a pound).

The independents had to find niche markets to survive.

[Patricia]

Yes, I've seen a lot of small bookshops close, or get taken over by Waterstone's. And all the Waterstone's have the same stock. The supermarkets have a smaller range of cheap bestsellers.
So, if you want something that isn't available on the shelves it is easiest to go to Amazon.
It is all a pity. I always went to my local bookshops until they vanished.

[radleyp]

Please accept that this is only speculation, as I have never worked with Apple. My suspicion is that, like other companies that seek to impose standards, it takes the position that to preserve its carefully honed image of quality, it sells only to particular stores that agree to Apple conditions on product display and placement, and that that image can be preserved only if prices are maintained. It will never state publicly that price point is a condition but it will make clear that unless the retailer in question accepts the same quality maintenance conditions as every other store, Apple will stop selling to it. OTOH, this is possible only because there is (for the moment) great demand for Apple products. Should that demand lessen, prices will come down.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by radleyp

Please accept that this is only speculation, as I have never worked with Apple. My suspicion is that, like other companies that seek to impose standards, it takes the position that to preserve its carefully honed image of quality, it sells only to particular stores that agree to Apple conditions on product display and placement, and that that image can be preserved only if prices are maintained. It will never state publicly that price point is a condition but it will make clear that unless the retailer in question accepts the same quality maintenance conditions as every other store, Apple will stop selling to it. OTOH, this is possible only because there is (for the moment) great demand for Apple products. Should that demand lessen, prices will come down.

So Apple effectively is enforcing a retail price at which vendors must sell. They simply aren't explicitly saying price is a factor. But I'm willing to bet that price is the first thing they look at if they do a vendor audit to make sure the vendor is in compliance with their standards, and if the vendor is discounting, they'll find an excuse for dropping them that doesn't mention price cutting.

Granted, it works because of high demand, but I don't see that slackening any time soon.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

There was discussion about this on 'You and Yours' (BBC Radio4) yesterday - they agreed about NBA, and also pointed out that supermarkets had moved into discounted book sales too (e.g. Asda selling Potter for a pound).

The independents had to find niche markets to survive.

That's been happening in the US for some time. The independents can't match the pricing that the big chains like Barnes and Noble and Borders can offer, and are getting badly squeezed. And B&N and Borders are getting squeezed by discount retailers like Wal-Mart, CostCo, and Sam's Club. (There's some question as to whether Borders can continue as a going concern.)

The other side-effect that doesn't get mentioned is the concentration of buying power into fewer and fewer hands. Publishers sell to wholesalers and big retailers, and there are fewer of those each day. The buyers for places like CostCo and Sam's Club have enormous clout in the industry because of the volume they buy.

The independents I'm aware of that survive are all niche market specialists.
______
Dennis