Fraud?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by patrickt

So, I was according to some foolish to talk to management at Sam's Club. But, if they don't drop the price, I will send a message to Amazon.com.mx and see how they react. Then a message to Amazom.com in the U .S. Then, I suppose, Jeff Bezos. I have the impression he is farily decent and honest. But, if I'm wrong, it's my fault.

Unless the retailer is under a contractual obligation to sell for a certain price, Amazon have no control over the price that an individual retailer sets for a product. I don't know what the situation in Mexico is, but in the EU, price fixing is illegal: ie, a manufacturer is not allowed to tell a retailer what they must sell a product for.

[fratermus]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Pidgeon, if I sold you a brand new Ford F-150 at the sticker price for a brand new 2016 Ford F-150 and you discovered it was a brand new, as in never sold before, 2014 Ford F-150, would you feel you had been cheated.

feeling cheated != being defrauded

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I understand. This isn't a forum for ethics and the topic wouldn't interest you. And, I really do understand. It's your responsibility and no one should trust anyone. If you do trust someone and get taken, it's your fault.

Apparently some don't understand the concept of the nanny state either. Expecting honesty, ethical behavior, and good customer service has nothing to do with a nanny state, does it? It has nothing to do with an unethical world that some prefer to live in.

So, I was according to some foolish to talk to management at Sam's Club. But, if they don't drop the price, I will send a message to Amazon.com.mx and see how they react. Then a message to Amazom.com in the U .S. Then, I suppose, Jeff Bezos. I have the impression he is farily decent and honest. But, if I'm wrong, it's my fault.

I am so ignorant, that when I get a book with lots of errors and poor formatting I not only notify Amazon, and expect them to do something, I notify the publisher, who I don't really expect to do anything. Foolish me.

Patrickt, there is no reason for you to feel ignorant for your belief that Amazon doesn't take your advice and that (by extension) you are also ignorant because Sam's doesn't take your advice in telling you what model of Kindle they're selling, when - in actuality - it is your job to research the product if you're interested in it. These things happen. Ignorance, I mean. But, if you must, it's OK to feel ignorant. If you must feel this way.

I'm ignorant of brain surgery, but I don't feel guilty or persecuted (a designation I give myself and not you), for said ignorance. After all, you may very well be a brain surgeon, for all I know.

I also consider myself a savvy buyer. I research everything before I decide on whether or not to buy something. I think all wise consumers go through a similar process before any transaction takes place.

Cheers.

[cvkemp]

I find the only fraud is when I as a customer does not do my research and I make mistakes than I get made at the salesman or the website that I buy from for it is my mistake and I am a fraud for not 1 doing my research, and 2 for getting mad a someone else for my mistake.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Your post is irrelevant.

I was only commenting on the bolded sentence in Harry's post and not the OP.

I apologize for not being clearer in the first place.

The fact that you were nitpicking about the bolded sentence in HarryT's post, without acknowledging that it had contextual meaning, is exactly why I felt it was irrelevant.

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I understand. This isn't a forum for ethics and the topic wouldn't interest you. And, I really do understand.

Apparently you don't understand, because you then proceeded to pontificate further on the morals and ethics of Caveat Emptor.

It's your responsibility and no one should trust anyone. If you do trust someone and get taken, it's your fault.

Apparently some don't understand the concept of the nanny state either. Expecting honesty, ethical behavior, and good customer service has nothing to do with a nanny state, does it? It has nothing to do with an unethical world that some prefer to live in.

So, I was according to some foolish to talk to management at Sam's Club. But, if they don't drop the price, I will send a message to Amazon.com.mx and see how they react. Then a message to Amazom.com in the U .S. Then, I suppose, Jeff Bezos. I have the impression he is farily decent and honest. But, if I'm wrong, it's my fault.

I am so ignorant, that when I get a book with lots of errors and poor formatting I not only notify Amazon, and expect them to do something, I notify the publisher, who I don't really expect to do anything. Foolish me.

Moderator Notice

This has nothing to do with Kindles.
Stop with the emotional buttons and political discussion. If you would like to continue discussing the matter without violating the MR guidelines, I can move the relevant part of the discussion to the P&R forum.

[rashkae]

The problem is 2 fold, and both originate from Amazon.

One is the new habbit of cycling the paperwhite models without making it clear on the box. (The distinction is only to be found in the fine print,, the model is always simply "Paperwhite".. this is not the same thing as the iphone example, since the Iphones have a clearly distinct model number. The Paperwhite 3 is never called Paperwhite 3 by Amazon. (you only see a reference to '7th generation, and of course, the specs have the new resolution.)

2. Amazon treats Retail channel as 3rd citizen at best. There is no attempt made to have the new models in retail stores at launch time.

All together, if you aren't buying your Amazon gadgets directly from Amazon, your being ... not cheated, but probably getting a bad deal. (getting older hardware for higher cost.).. honestly, I'm amazed retailers carry Kindle's at all.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by rashkae

The problem is 2 fold, and both originate from Amazon.

One is the new habbit of cycling the paperwhite models without making it clear on the box. (The distinction is only to be found in the fine print,, the model is always simply "Paperwhite".. this is not the same thing as the iphone example, since the Iphones have a clearly distinct model number. The Paperwhite 3 is never called Paperwhite 3 by Amazon. (you only see a reference to '7th generation, and of course, the specs have the new resolution.)

2. Amazon treats Retail channel as 3rd citizen at best. There is no attempt made to have the new models in retail stores at launch time.

All together, if you aren't buying your Amazon gadgets directly from Amazon, your being ... not cheated, but probably getting a bad deal. (getting older hardware for higher cost.).. honestly, I'm amazed retailers carry Kindle's at all.

It would be nice to have different incarnations of the same model devlce readily identifiable. I don't have sufficient information about Amazon and retail stores, though logically physical retail stores would not be a priority for various reasons which seem to be obvious. However, this may not be true in some or even most Countries outside of the United States. In Australia Amazon has appointed a local large retail chain, Dick Smith, to handle Kindle Sales. The Voyage became available here I think in about April, but Amazon will still not sell this directly. The local site seems to sell little except books, with other purchases through the US (or possibly the UK) store if they do make the item available in Australia. At the moment Amazon's Australian online store offers little except the ability to pay agency prices to the local large publishers (Agency never stopped here). It is obviously a work in progress and will probably remain one until Amazon decides to set-up one or more local warehouses. In the meantime they seem content to let Dick Smith handle the hardware side of things. I have no experience of Customer Service, though I can say that the staff had little knowledge of Kindle's when I asked about a Voyage early in the year. Incidentaily, a Voyage from Dick Smith costs $A299. At current exchange rates this is about $US220 as opposed to $199 from the US Kindle Store. Not too bad including postage, local taxes of about $20. And no waiting for it to ship from the US (if they would actually supply one).

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by darryl

It would be nice to have different incarnations of the same model devlce readily identifiable. I don't have sufficient information about Amazon and retail stores, though logically physical retail stores would not be a priority for various reasons which seem to be obvious. However, this may not be true in some or even most Countries outside of the United States. In Australia Amazon has appointed a local large retail chain, Dick Smith, to handle Kindle Sales. The Voyage became available here I think in about April, but Amazon will still not sell this directly. The local site seems to sell little except books, with other purchases through the US (or possibly the UK) store if they do make the item available in Australia. At the moment Amazon's Australian online store offers little except the ability to pay agency prices to the local large publishers (Agency never stopped here). It is obviously a work in progress and will probably remain one until Amazon decides to set-up one or more local warehouses. In the meantime they seem content to let Dick Smith handle the hardware side of things. I have no experience of Customer Service, though I can say that the staff had little knowledge of Kindle's when I asked about a Voyage early in the year. Incidentaily, a Voyage from Dick Smith costs $A299. At current exchange rates this is about $US220 as opposed to $199 from the US Kindle Store. Not too bad including postage, local taxes of about $20. And no waiting for it to ship from the US (if they would actually supply one).

Hi. A Kindle Voyage with special offers would cost me $215.
A Kindle Voyage without special offers would cost me $237.
I am in the US.
Gotta love taxes.

[torbich]

I do not understand the insult of the topicstarter. Yes, the Sam's club has Paperwhite2, not 3. It is a bundle of PW2 (without special offers) and original cover, in contrast to amazon.com.mx, where it is PW3 without a cover. As usual, sales persons do not know anything about the version, and all the information customers have is "Amazon Kindle Paperwhite with Cover 4g" (4g meaning the available memory, 4gb).

Speaking about the price, now it is 2400 mxn, less then 145 usd. Not a bad price for the bundle, isn't it? Taking into account it is more expensive Kindle without special offers and the cover alone costs 40$. And no sales tax in Mexico.

[Almamida]

Without telling it's a fraud, I'm glad to see customers like Patrickt.
It doesn't cost anything to tell Sam's Club that they're not specifing which version of PaperWhite they are selling or that it seems overpriced. Sam's club isn't obliged to react, but at least they are aware of the situation.