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Old 06-10-2015, 11:34 AM   #46
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I repeat the question I asked earlier: what are you proposing should be done? Abolishing single-country or regional distribution contracts?
How about providing strong disincentives for regional distribution, or at least providing strong disincentives for not having a contract for distribution within a region? I'm aware that this wouldn't work in every situation, because there are regions in which it doesn't make economic sense to negotiate a contract. On the other hand, it should be feasible within the EU.

The problem is that a lot of content is not available in a lot of regions, or consumers are forced to seek out content from distributors in their own region. Finding local distributors is frequently non-trivial, and when it is available it is often at non-competitive pricing and has a host of anti-competitive restrictions. To give you an idea of what I mean, in the context of Canada, a lot of online distribution of television programming is tied to an ISP. In order to access it, you have to have a subscription with that ISP and a subscription to the digital delivery service.

For someone such as myself, the answer is easy: I just don't bother with something unless they want to sell it to me. Clearly they don't, so I do without. Heck, I won't even bother with the free service that they provide because I don't care enough about the product to structure my life around the restrictions (e.g. the one-week window to access television programming.) On the other hand, whether we agree with it or not, a lot of people care about that content to a sufficient degree that the will resort to other means to obtain it. Often that includes piracy or using proxies in other regions, not just because of the cost but because of the relative ease to access it.

In spite of the incentive to expand regional distribution and use distribution channels that are less restrictive, it seems as though industry is unwilling to address the issue on their own accord. They would much rather lobby for stronger legislation surrounding piracy and digital rights management than creating an environment where consumers are wiling and (most important) able to buy their product.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:54 AM   #47
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Don't you think you're exaggerating just a little? Rights-holders have an absolute right to decide who to sell distribution rights to, and in what territories. Nobody's being held to ransom. It's generally the decision of the author, not the publisher, to decide to sell rights to different publishers in different counties, because they can make significantly more money that way. Blame the author, not the publisher.
As I pointed out in my original post on this topic, a statutory monopoly should be treated as a privilege. It certainly should not attract legislative intervention or technological trickery to try to create artificial regional markets that do not and cannot exist on the internet. I suspect what we are eventually going to see develop is sales of non-exclusive world rights to different players. And revenue to publishers will almost certainly be less.

I very much doubt that it is authors who drive regional rights, though they no doubt make the most of this doomed distribution model while it exists. Quite frankly I don't know how common it is for a Publisher to buy the rights to an author's work for one region only, leaving the author free to themselves sell the rights in other regions, perhaps after the book becomes a bestseller. Certainly, what I know of how the Big 5 work leads me to doubt that this is a common practice.

As usual, I blame the Publishers.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:26 PM   #48
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I very much doubt that it is authors who drive regional rights, though they no doubt make the most of this doomed distribution model while it exists. Quite frankly I don't know how common it is for a Publisher to buy the rights to an author's work for one region only, leaving the author free to themselves sell the rights in other regions, perhaps after the book becomes a bestseller. Certainly, what I know of how the Big 5 work leads me to doubt that this is a common practice.
I think it's actually pretty common. An awful lot of books have different UK and US publishers, leading to the common situation of an eBook being available in the US but not the UK, or vice versa. Eg, David Eddings' work has been available in eBook form in the UK for a long time, but many of his books aren't available as eBooks in the US, because the publishers are different. This is definitely something that's driven by authors (or their agents), not publishers. It's purely financial.

Last edited by HarryT; 06-10-2015 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:57 PM   #49
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The problem is more complex than just if it's the author's/agent's fault or if it's the publisher's fault.

For some titles, especially back-list titles, it was common practice at the time for an agent to sell at a minimum UK/Commonwealth rights and North American rights separately. Sometimes Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, etc. rights were also done separately. This is still the case with some books/authors (eg. Kelley Armstrong's book "Omens" is licensed in English with Random House in Canada, Little, Brown - Sphere in the UK & Dutton in the US), but more publishers are trying to get world English language rights (allowing the author/agent to still license foreign language editions separately) or complete world rights.

The problem is that some of these publishers that do buy world English rights don't exercise all of those rights and make the book available worldwide even though they have licensed those rights.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:38 PM   #50
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Some geoblocking is just plain dumb. Like MLB in the US. If your team is in a certain division, you can't see the other teams in the same division on MLB on Roku. Your local team wants your fanny in the seats. That I understand. But I can't fly to where my team plays (in the same division, but 1,000 miles away) - expensive. You can get a subscription to a service in the UK anyway that allows you to see all games live. Not in the US.
You don't have access to MLB.TV? Every game except the local team is available. Through your cable provider or stream online.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:01 PM   #51
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No, it's because the author makes more money that way. Sell to two publishers and you get two advances. Most books do not earn back more than their advance, so the advance is the author's sole revenue from the book.
I would be pretty surprised if many authors get multiple advances. From what I have read, US authors focus mostly on the US market, getting an advance from their primary publisher, then the agent negotiates any foreign rights. Perhaps it's different in England where the US is the bigger market. Few US authors have significant sales outside the English speaking world.
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Old 06-10-2015, 06:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
I would be pretty surprised if many authors get multiple advances. From what I have read, US authors focus mostly on the US market, getting an advance from their primary publisher, then the agent negotiates any foreign rights. Perhaps it's different in England where the US is the bigger market. Few US authors have significant sales outside the English speaking world.
The English speaking world does extend outside the US !

A successful author might well have print editions in NA, Australia and UK and likely ebooks in all three. Rest of world may well see two or more ebook editions sold, mainly, I guess, because of sales not being big enough to bother to check contracts.

Someone was complaining that Penguin has reduced the price of the ebook
Military Dispatches (Penguin Classics) by The Duke of Wellington

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Dis...dp/B00HO11CQO/

in the UK (it's an Open University set book) but not in Spain where the poster was doing the distance learning or in the other EU stores.

Should this be allowed ?
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:07 PM   #53
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Few US authors have significant sales outside the English speaking world.
We're sure of this how? Not saying I necessarily doubt it, but is that based on some kind of info somewhere?


Quote:
I would be pretty surprised if many authors get multiple advances.
Every deal I've read about with a traditional publisher has included advances in each market/contract area.

Last edited by AnemicOak; 06-10-2015 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:15 PM   #54
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I think the issue is availability. Geoblocking and other restrictions can affect availability but they aren't themselves the issue.

I won't get a pirate copy of anything I can buy. If I can't buy something I want I'll get it any way I can. And when I say "can't buy" I don't mean I can't afford it. If it's available and I can't afford it I'll wait till I can.

I have accounts with Amazon, Kobo, B&N and 2 or 3 others so I can nearly always buy the books I want. And I do. On those rare occasions when a book I want to read simply isn't available legitimately I'll get it some other way. The same is true of movies. I have Netflix and Amazon Prime so I can get nearly anything but just every now and then I can't and what I want isn't on DVD so I find another way.

Honesty isn't a digital thing. We're not either honest or thieves. Honesty is a goal, and a good one and one I strive for. I don't think downloading a pirate copy of a book I can't buy legally is enough to characterize me as a dishonest person. Am I without blemish? Nah! That's not even a goal.

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Old 06-10-2015, 09:45 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I think it's actually pretty common. An awful lot of books have different UK and US publishers, leading to the common situation of an eBook being available in the US but not the UK, or vice versa. Eg, David Eddings' work has been available in eBook form in the UK for a long time, but many of his books aren't available as eBooks in the US, because the publishers are different. This is definitely something that's driven by authors (or their agents), not publishers. It's purely financial.
Perhaps someone who knows can enlighten both of us.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:13 PM   #56
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Most publishers supply low-cost editions of book to countries such as India. That would instantly stop if anyone could buy them.
You might remember that there was a US court case on this a few years ago, and the publisher who wanted to stop sales of the low-cost edition, in the US, lost:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...imported-works

I wonder if this has actually increased prices in India. Maybe it has.

As for eBooks, I haven't checked enough to see a clear pattern. The India edition isn't always the cheapest. But here a case where it is:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon, Kindle eBook

amazon.com - US$9.99

amazon.co.uk - £5.98 (equivalent to US$9.27)

amazon.in - 263.15 Indian Rupees (equivalent to US$4.12)

Here's another:

The Wright Brothers by David McCullough, Kindle eBook

amazon.com - US$14.99

amazon.co.uk - £15.99 (equivalent to, gulp, US$24.78)

amazon.in - 497.80 Indian Rupees (equivalent to US$7.80)
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:52 AM   #57
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The idea that allowing Big Publishing to gouge the citizens of wealthy countries is necessary to subsidise them bringing affordable books to the impoverished masses in less developed countries is nothing more than a myth. The gouging is happening, but the impoverished masses are getting their affordable books through Piracy, not Publishers.
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:45 AM   #58
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The idea that allowing Big Publishing to gouge the citizens of wealthy countries is necessary to subsidise them bringing affordable books to the impoverished masses in less developed countries is nothing more than a myth. The gouging is happening, but the impoverished masses are getting their affordable books through Piracy, not Publishers.
What makes you believe that there is any "gouging" occurring, darryl? (I believe that "gouging" means "charging too high a price", yes?)
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:46 AM   #59
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Someone was complaining that Penguin has reduced the price of the ebook
Military Dispatches (Penguin Classics) by The Duke of Wellington

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Military-Dis...dp/B00HO11CQO/

in the UK (it's an Open University set book) but not in Spain where the poster was doing the distance learning or in the other EU stores.

Should this be allowed ?
Unless you're arguing in favour of price fixing, then yes, of course it should be allowed.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:16 AM   #60
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@HarryT. These are the main factors leading to my belief that gouging is occurring:

1. Agency Pricing and the rising prices under Agency Pricing.
2. Related and overlapping with 1, is the now non-existent price competition for traditionally published ebooks at the retail level. Whilst the Big 5 claim they do compete, I understand it is common ground between them that they do not compete on price.
3. The apparent strategic aim of the Big Publishers to try to try to preserve their traditional print book businesses and legacy practices at the expense of ebooks. Harper Collins, in discussions with Apple's Eddy Cue, wanted to charge $18 to $20 for ebooks. Not exactly compatible with promoting ebook sales.
4. The Price Fixing Cartel with Apple and the war on Amazon.
5. The history of the Publishing Industry and many of its major players. The British and US publishers essentially divided the world between them and ruthlessly exploited the markets they controlled, aided in many cases by Parallel Import legislation and other similarly restrictive laws. Pre-Amazon there was essentially no competition. On the other side of the coin, contracts offered to authors made and still make working in an Amazon warehouse look wonderful to all but the very top tier of best selling authors. The history of Publishing is one of exploiting all concerned. Of course, things have now changed, but I see little indication that the Big 5 recognise this.
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