Authors unhappy with Kindle Unlimited

[Josieb1]

Since I started reviewing I've got to meet a lot of authors in the genre I read. Most are published by a publishing house and they self publish a few in between. Most have a day job as they can't make a living by writing. Some are in KU. Most aren't. Personally I don't see how any author can make a living from KU, most can't with selling books so lending them at a lower price is a no no.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is part of the problem. When I was last on vacation, I was away from home for 12 or 13 days. I barely had WiFi access. I had my Reader with me. So if I was reading an eBook borrowed from Kindle Unlimited, I would not have been able to turn on the WiFi and send that I had read more then 10%. This is a major flaw in the system and Amazon should address it.

I'd be surprised if this wasn't considered, then ignored at some point at the discussion stage, since it would only ever work out in Amazon's favour. When publishers started imposing fixed fonts and margins on their ebooks that you can't change, I started routinely using Calibre to break that formatting before I start reading. I'd guess that would also break what they use to determine whether it's been read or not.

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Because I don't read with the WiFi on.

If I was reading a book and I went to have a look at the copyright page which is usually at the back of an eBook these days, how would the Amazon or the Kindle know I had not read up to that part of the book?

Would data be sent back to Amazon saying I'm at the copyright and the author gets paid because I've gone past 10%?

Yes of course. A log is kept and sent to Amazon the next time wifi is turned on, which reports how much of the book is read or listened to.

At least, that's how it works with Scribd, so I assume Amazon does the same thing.

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by booklover6

Yes of course. A log is kept and sent to Amazon the next time wifi is turned on, which reports how much of the book is read or listened to.

So even if I don't actually read the book but just go to the last page, Amazon will record that I've read the entire book?

As an aside, I have a 6 months sub to KU, but will not renew. I read mainly non-fiction, i.e. bios, history, entertainment, etc. and count myself lucky to have found 10 books of interest so far. Indie "authors" in these fields think that putting together a crap book of quotes or copying from a Wikipedia article constitutes an ebook. This has only reinforced my decision to only buy books released by professional publishers.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

You're not purchasing a book.

It's a library. If I check out a book from my local public library, the author gets paid a pre-calculated amount. If I pick up a book from the shelf, browse through a few pages and put it back on the shelf because I don't like it, the author shouldn't and doesn't get paid.

If you take the book home with you then yes, the author should get paid and downloading the book to your Kindle or computer (IMHO) should count as taking it home.

There's nothing to stop you from downloading a sample, reading that and then deciding. That's your browsing at the library and deciding not to borrow it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

It's not fair on the authors because you chose to modify the file and make it un-trackable. Amazon has nothing to do with that "loophole". Amazon did not recommend that you employ that step or switch off your wifi. If you can turn on your wifi in order to download the book, you could be considerate and turn it on again after you're done with the book to update the servers with your read information so that the author gets paid. If you're on vacation and without wifi access, leave the book on the device and delete it after you've returned home and turned wifi on (although I reckon the device probably stores the read information at all times and simply phones it back home when you next connect to wifi, which makes it even simpler for you).

Even if I had a Kindle, I would have the WiFi off and Amazon would not know how much I read. That's why this stupid 10% read is crap. It means that a lot of people who do the same thing won't be reporting how much is read back to amazon. Sorry, but any system like that is going to be a great big FAIL!

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by joehunt

So even if I don't actually read the book but just go to the last page, Amazon will record that I've read the entire book?

They know how far you got in it, the percentage at any rate, as long as it has been read on the device (not run through Calibre and read on something else).

Originally Posted by joehunt

As an aside, I have a 6 months sub to KU, but will not renew. I read mainly non-fiction, i.e. bios, history, entertainment, etc. and count myself lucky to have found 10 books of interest so far. Indie "authors" in these fields think that putting together a crap book of quotes or copying from a Wikipedia article constitutes an ebook. This has only reinforced my decision to only buy books released by professional publishers.

It's probably a better deal for fiction readers.

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Even if I had a Kindle, I would have the WiFi off and Amazon would not know how much I read. That's why this stupid 10% read is crap. It means that a lot of people who do the same thing won't be reporting how much is read back to amazon. Sorry, but any system like that is going to be a great big FAIL!

They will know once wifi is turned back on. Even if you deleted the book first, there is a remnant file left on the device (unless you go to a computer and delete that, too).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by booklover6

Yes of course. A log is kept and sent to Amazon the next time wifi is turned on, which reports how much of the book is read or listened to.

At least, that's how it works with Scribd, so I assume Amazon does the same thing.

This log, does it track all the pages that were turned to or does it just track the farthest page turned?

[booklover6]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This log, does it track all the pages that were turned to or does it just track the farthest page turned?

It's a book mark, basically, that just knows the last page opened.

[latepaul]

The 10% thing is actually a benefit to writers - well good writers - under the current scheme whether the payout comes from a fixed pot of money. If every borrow counted, regardless of how much was read, then it would dilute the payout even further.

But it's that element, not what counts as a read, that makes it a bad deal for writers. Any deal where the buyer can arbitrarily decide to change what it pays the seller (i.e. the size of the pot) is not a good deal for the seller. You could double your sales and you don't know for sure whether your revenue will increase in line with that, or even fall.

You can see why Amazon does it that way - because they want to control their costs. Usually subscription services have to rely on most people under-using it to come out ahead. In the case of KU it seems that Amazon is trying to attract precisely the kind of people who will over-use it. Because they're really trying to lure them away from Scribd and Oyster. But the people using those services are exactly the ones most likely to be voracious readers, which will cost you a lot in a pay-per-read/per-borrow model.

Solution: cap the pay out.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Even if I had a Kindle, I would have the WiFi off and Amazon would not know how much I read. That's why this stupid 10% read is crap. It means that a lot of people who do the same thing won't be reporting how much is read back to amazon. Sorry, but any system like that is going to be a great big FAIL!

If you had the wifi off, you wouldn't be able to download the book to begin with, making your point moot. If you intend on borrowing ebooks, you would necessarily need to switch on your wifi at some point, unless you could borrow via computer transfer too.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you take the book home with you then yes, the author should get paid and downloading the book to your Kindle or computer (IMHO) should count as taking it home.

There's nothing to stop you from downloading a sample, reading that and then deciding. That's your browsing at the library and deciding not to borrow it.

I disagree, Jon. Why should it count as taking the book home, and not just perusing a few pages in the library? Sounds arbitrary either way. My reasoning is that kindle samples are not a good enough indicator. I have never based my decision to purchase an ebook off the samples on Amazon since they are usually comprised of just the contents table, introduction/preface/acknowledgements and a handful of pages from chapter 1. All they have ever helped me with is in checking the formatting by the publisher. Not the actual content. I wouldn't check an unknown physical book out of the library after that small a sampling, and I certainly would not base my decision to borrow an ebook off the Amazon samples. 10% seems a fair enough compromise.

[piperclassique]

Not sure that's necessarily true. Just because someone pays for a subscription doesn't mean they won't have favourite authors that they want to read and are willing to pay for. The question comes down to whether there's enough books, and enough of the right books, they want to read in the subscription catalogue.

I am using KU, so is my husband ( both kindles on the same account )
I think we are getting decent value out of it, but it doesn't stop me buying other books. I choose the books via the PC, when I have read them I go to the PC, return them, choose new, and turn on the 3g or the wifi for five minutes. Old books gone, new books come.
Just like the library. Except I can get them again, no waiting, if I should want to re read. I'm happy with that.
Since I found out about the payment system, I make sure to go to the end before I return them, unless they are so bad that I don't think the authors deserve paying. Not many are. Some are public domain, so I guess Amazon don't pay for those.

[piperclassique]

If you had the wifi off, you wouldn't be able to download the book to begin with, making your point moot. If you intend on borrowing ebooks, you would necessarily need to switch on your wifi at some point, unless you could borrow via computer transfer too.
Last edited by howyoudoin; Today at 17:51.

You can, but I expect it gets wiped the same way