Dangerously e-books: How do I know if my ebooks have been altered? - Page 4

alanHd · 03-27-2014, 10:17 AM

For me it all depends which I encountered first. I don't have a problem with them changing things to fit the screen as long as the story line is along the same lines, I would hate for them to kill someone of who didn't die in the book. Even on the big screen people disagree on the different versions. For people who haven't seen it the directors cut of Aliens is 10 times better than the original.

As many have said this is not a new problem and everyone has to use there own judgement when it comes to non fiction and not rely on one source.

speakingtohe · 03-27-2014, 03:08 PM

As Winston Churchill said "history is written by the victors." I am sure that this holds true in all but the driest of accounts, fiction or non fiction. Changing someone else's work and pretending that this is what the actually wrote is IMO bad, but censors have been doing it for a long time.

I think it is up to the reader to decide what they want to read. Sometimes a story retold with a change of style is more enjoyable. Almost always there is bias whether by the original author or by someone rewriting what they said.

You are only in danger if you believe everything you read and make life changing decisions based on it. Kind of like believing Cheese Whiz is really good for you because it is only 90% fat instead of 98% fat like butter.

Helen

eschwartz · 03-27-2014, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victoria

For example, look at the history of the Christian bible: no originals from the Hebrew bible - just translations of translations; transcription errors crept in through hand-copying over the centuries; disagreement over critical word choices in modern translations due to differing theological and political perspectives of the scholars; the 1&2 century had a different understanding of 'author' from today, so that works were attributed to Paul and others, though written after their deaths, etc.

And that is why the Jewish Bible is sacrosanct and it is heresy to change it, even by one (silent) letter.

Quote:

Social media / 'global village' now allows readers to brush elbows with authors. JK Rowling says she made a mistake with Ron and Hermione - too much information! What are we supposed to do with revelations from authors, rewrite the books in our head?

She lost the right to say that as soon as she published the book. You cannot just take it all back.

And Harry and Hermione are way too clichéd; I have lost my respect for her as a result of her even suggesting the idea.

speakingtohe · 03-27-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And that is why the Jewish Bible is sacrosanct and it is heresy to change it, even by one (silent) letter.

She lost the right to say that as soon as she published the book. You cannot just take it all back.

And Harry and Hermione are way too clichéd; I have lost my respect for her as a result of her even suggesting the idea.

You are kidding?

Helen

HarryT · 03-27-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And that is why the Jewish Bible is sacrosanct and it is heresy to change it, even by one (silent) letter.

An interesting theory, rendered meaningless by the undeniable fact that all the surviving ancient manuscripts of the Jewish bible ARE different. There are no two which are identical.

tompe · 03-27-2014, 06:15 PM

I would like to have published checksums for ebooks so you can check that it is not changed and check exactly what edition of the book you have.

If I read a review of a book I want to know that I have bought the same book as the the book that was reviewed. I also want so be able to make sure that I have read the same edition as friends since it makes it easier to talk about the book.

rkomar · 03-27-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I would like to have published checksums for ebooks so you can check that it is not changed and check exactly what edition of the book you have.

If I read a review of a book I want to know that I have bought the same book as the the book that was reviewed. I also want so be able to make sure that I have read the same edition as friends since it makes it easier to talk about the book.

That's non-trivial with DRM encryption on books, even more so with digital watermarks strewn throughout the book. You'd have to get those implementing the decoding to do it for you, and trust that they are doing it right.

HarryT · 03-27-2014, 06:42 PM

And given the fact that the decryption key is stored in the book itself, every copy of the book is different, so a checksum simply wouldn't work.

jgaiser · 03-27-2014, 10:36 PM

Is it just me, or is this whole thread a bit bizarre? Do folks *really* worry about books being changed under their noses? Do we *really* need checksums for ebooks? Why would publishers/authors deliberately make changes that change the meaning of their stories.

Yes, I know there were bowdlerization of books in the past and even in the present (see the new Huck Finn removing the N* word), but these are noticed and reported.

In this age of the internet, do you folks *really* believe this sort of thing is possible?

tempura · 03-28-2014, 03:31 AM

This reminds of when I use "Regular Expressions" in any application, sometimes I can't tell whether if I have deleted any content or not by mistake when using Regular Expression for Search and Replace on big files. It's scary to think about it.

avantman42 · 03-28-2014, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

In this age of the internet, do you folks *really* believe this sort of thing is possible?

As I said before, I think it's possible if the book isn't hugely popular. If a book is widely read, changes are almost certain to be noticed and commented upon. If a book is less well known, however, I think it's entirely feasible that no-one will notice changes.

Mind you, while I believe it could happen, the possibility doesn't bother me

alanHd · 03-28-2014, 03:59 AM

I think the odds of this happening with a book from a reputable source is fairly low but what about books from the Dark Net. What if I wanted to spread rumours about someone, Edit a Biography with some untruths and seed it. I could see plenty of people believing it just because its written, no matter if it differs from other versions.

HarryT · 03-28-2014, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanHd

I think the odds of this happening with a book from a reputable source is fairly low but what about books from the Dark Net. What if I wanted to spread rumours about someone, Edit a Biography with some untruths and seed it. I could see plenty of people believing it just because its written, no matter if it differs from other versions.

It's always been possible to commit libel; eBooks really don't change that. Dishonest people can always spread misinformation. That's why we have libel laws.

alanHd · 03-28-2014, 06:49 AM

But surely it would be pretty hard to find out who made the changes.

HarryT · 03-28-2014, 07:05 AM

Well, yes, it goes without saying that someone who's setting out to commit a crime isn't going to make it easy for someone to prosecute them (unless they're very foolish). I'm simply saying that we already have laws which deal with this specific crime; it's not something new. Libel has probably existed for pretty much as long as writing has.

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03-27-2014, 10:17 AM	#46
alanHd Addict Posts: 374 Karma: 1408579 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: UK Device: Kindle Touch, Ipod Touch, Ipad Air	For me it all depends which I encountered first. I don't have a problem with them changing things to fit the screen as long as the story line is along the same lines, I would hate for them to kill someone of who didn't die in the book. Even on the big screen people disagree on the different versions. For people who haven't seen it the directors cut of Aliens is 10 times better than the original. As many have said this is not a new problem and everyone has to use there own judgement when it comes to non fiction and not rely on one source.

03-27-2014, 03:08 PM	#47
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	As Winston Churchill said "history is written by the victors." I am sure that this holds true in all but the driest of accounts, fiction or non fiction. Changing someone else's work and pretending that this is what the actually wrote is IMO bad, but censors have been doing it for a long time. I think it is up to the reader to decide what they want to read. Sometimes a story retold with a change of style is more enjoyable. Almost always there is bias whether by the original author or by someone rewriting what they said. You are only in danger if you believe everything you read and make life changing decisions based on it. Kind of like believing Cheese Whiz is really good for you because it is only 90% fat instead of 98% fat like butter. Helen

03-27-2014, 06:15 PM	#51
tompe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,452 Karma: 7185064 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Linköpng, Sweden Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW	I would like to have published checksums for ebooks so you can check that it is not changed and check exactly what edition of the book you have. If I read a review of a book I want to know that I have bought the same book as the the book that was reviewed. I also want so be able to make sure that I have read the same edition as friends since it makes it easier to talk about the book.

03-27-2014, 06:42 PM	#53
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	And given the fact that the decryption key is stored in the book itself, every copy of the book is different, so a checksum simply wouldn't work.

03-27-2014, 10:36 PM	#54
jgaiser Omnivorous Posts: 3,283 Karma: 27978909 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rural NW Oregon Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle Fire HD, Kindle 3, KPW1	Is it just me, or is this whole thread a bit bizarre? Do folks really worry about books being changed under their noses? Do we really need checksums for ebooks? Why would publishers/authors deliberately make changes that change the meaning of their stories. Yes, I know there were bowdlerization of books in the past and even in the present (see the new Huck Finn removing the N* word), but these are noticed and reported. In this age of the internet, do you folks really believe this sort of thing is possible?

03-28-2014, 03:31 AM	#55
tempura Connoisseur Posts: 71 Karma: 47102 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Outside the Universe Device: Kindle PW3	This reminds of when I use "Regular Expressions" in any application, sometimes I can't tell whether if I have deleted any content or not by mistake when using Regular Expression for Search and Replace on big files. It's scary to think about it.

03-28-2014, 03:59 AM	#57
alanHd Addict Posts: 374 Karma: 1408579 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: UK Device: Kindle Touch, Ipod Touch, Ipad Air	I think the odds of this happening with a book from a reputable source is fairly low but what about books from the Dark Net. What if I wanted to spread rumours about someone, Edit a Biography with some untruths and seed it. I could see plenty of people believing it just because its written, no matter if it differs from other versions.

03-28-2014, 06:49 AM	#59
alanHd Addict Posts: 374 Karma: 1408579 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: UK Device: Kindle Touch, Ipod Touch, Ipad Air	But surely it would be pretty hard to find out who made the changes.

03-28-2014, 07:05 AM	#60
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Well, yes, it goes without saying that someone who's setting out to commit a crime isn't going to make it easy for someone to prosecute them (unless they're very foolish). I'm simply saying that we already have laws which deal with this specific crime; it's not something new. Libel has probably existed for pretty much as long as writing has.

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