It's so easy for me to lose perspective...

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It can if the embedded font has some character needed for the eBook that the default font (or font in use) doesn't have.

If the font isn't there, I won't see the character but the bug won't affect it. We can continue as you like, I have practice discussing about rhetorical in software now

[geormes]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Have I said anything about people doing this? I was answering to JSWolf, who said I didn't know if the bug exists because I didn't know if my books had it. I usually say nothing about bugs except at the moment people claims a bug affects EVERYBODY.

For the most part, I consider embedded fonts to be annoying. I never add a book to my ereader without changing the css.
Like you, I am rarely, if ever, affected by this bug.

[JSWolf]

I too change the CSS as I want no margins, no paragraph spaces, and no chapter titles 1/2 way down the screen.

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Is there a limit to what text people can ignore?

Actually, there is. Some of the threads in this forum are hundreds of posts long and very difficult to wade through if the signal to noise ratio is low.

Now if there is a thread that starts off with a topic that I'm not interested in, I can ignore it. If a thread degenerates into a topic that I'm not interested in, I can ignore it. If a thread becomes a jumble of topics, I deal with it as best I can. If something is very interesting, I try filtering out what I'm not interested in. If the interesting thing isn't that interesting, I just ignore the thread. There isn't a huge problem in those cases, in my humble opinion.

But when I'm trying to read or discuss something and it becomes so polluted that it's unenjoyable to continue, then I try to read or discuss something else and it becomes so polluted that it's unenjoyable to continue, then I try ... (you should get the point) ... and it's the same pollution by largely the same group of people I am going to get upset.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'll give you one bug going back to the original Kobo that DOES affect everyone.

There are a lot of bugs that affect everyone. The point is, how do we respond to them. Making people aware of the bug is good, especially since people can add their voice and Kobo will be more likely to notice that people are concerned with it. (After all, Kobo employees appear to hang out here.) But the same person bringing it up in multiple threads over a short period of time, disrupting other conversations in the process is not appropriate.

Look at it this way: I want a full screen reading mode, but I tried to understand why Kobo added it (of course, I don't know the real reason since Kobo hasn't said) and I didn't get upset about the design decision. I didn't like the new home screen at first, but I learnt how to use it and learnt like it. So upset transmuted into happy.

There are bugs that tweak me a little bit, but I don't get overly upset about it and I try to avoid being disruptive in the forums about it. This would be things like missing characters in fonts and the long paragraph bug. Yes, I have mentioned them but it has been infrequent and in appropriate places (I hope!).

Put another way, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what is being said but I am disagreeing with how it's being said.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Your renditions are much more colorful than those I've read here.

So, your answer is what? When a thread is discussing problems, we can leave out those you may have heard too often? ( It's under investigation we can't talk about it. That was weeks ago, it's not news anymore, let's move on. )

It is more the people who insist on dragging complaints about their pet bugs into every thread. You may have noticed that on more than a few occasions where a post has nothing to do with the subject of the thread but is simply a repetition of the poster's pet complaint. I can't even say it's a pet bug since the complaint is often over something that was done by design.

And yes, it's not news anymore. Is your kvetching going to get it fixed any faster? Are you contacting Kobo's customer service to register your complaint? The times that I have contacted them about a bug or what I have perceived as a bug, it would appear that after a few emails, the issue does get bounced up to a higher level. Does it do any good? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I see it as doing more to get a bug fixed than multiple complaints in this forum.

Regards,
David

[speakingtohe]

I think anyone should be able to post anything within forum guidelines, even those who would like to censor others.

If I disagree I will argue. If I agree and have anything to add I will add it. If it offends me (which doesn't often happen) I will ignore it.

If it frustrates me I will probably stay away from the thread or try to refrain from posting.

Personally I prefer a little contention even if repetitive to blandness, but I don't feel that I can tell the people who just post me too comments to stop it. After all people do like to participate.

I was thinking that we had all strayed far off topic, until I read the title of the thread. Good one Taming

Helen

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'll give you one bug going back to the original Kobo that DOES affect everyone.

When you put the font-family in the body style in CSS, the embedded font is not displayed. This is how some embedded fonts are setup. Kobo ignores this. This is not an ADE issue. ADE works with font-family in the body CSS style. Kobo botched this and it's been reported and they refuse to fix it. So many eBooks do not display the embedded font and there could be an issue with extended characters because of this.

THIS AFFECTS EVERY EINK KOBO OUT THERE!

If you're going to be wrong, BE WRONG IN A VERY LOUD VOICE. Why are you still trotting out this nonsense? I thought I'd put you right the last time you did this - even going to the trouble of using the same epub you quoted had the problem.

Ripplinger has it right. If you want to see an embedded font which has been defined in the body style just select 'Document Default' from the font menu. How difficult is that to understand.

Still, the irony of you raising this fallacy, yet again, given the direction this thread has headed, is not lost on me

Sigh.

I'd use the ignore list to get rid of the annoying repetitive posters who have to argue over everything, whether I agree with them or not, except it keeps giving me the error message: We can't help you ignore yourself.

[pidgeon92]

On a side note.... Wayyyyy back when, when all I had were books made out of paper, I read those books. I didn't make note of the font. I didn't make note of the quality of the paper; the size of the margins. I read the words on the page, flipped the page, finished the book, and moved onto the next book. The worst thing I can ever remember happening was that I accidentally borrowed a Large Print book from the library, and couldn't read it because the font was just too large. I went back and got the normal sized copy instead.

I do the same with ebooks. I don't mess with the original, unless there is truly something godawful about the formatting. Otherwise, I just go with the default fonts, margins, paragraph spacing, whatever. All I've ever really wanted is to just read.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

On a side note.... Wayyyyy back when, when all I had were books made out of paper, I read those books. I didn't make note of the font. I didn't make note of the quality of the paper; the size of the margins. I read the words on the page, flipped the page, finished the book, and moved onto the next book. The worst thing I can ever remember happening was that I accidentally borrowed a Large Print book from the library, and couldn't read it because the font was just too large. I went back and got the normal sized copy instead.

I've read a lot of books over the decades. I still have quite a few around -- about 1800 hard covers and 5000+ paperbacks. I've looked at the fonts and the layout, checked the quality of the paper (except the SFBC editions -- their paper was always low quality) and made snide comments about them for almost as long. When I ran into an outstanding example of typography such as an early edition of Zelazny's Lord of Light, I noticed it. On the other hand, what I really noticed about Lord of Light was the writing and the story that writing told. Without those, nothing makes any book worth reading.

When the Linotype was retired and replaced by a phototypesetter, it took some of the fun away.

Sadly, after those decades, I'm finding large print books to be easier to read than normal print books when I'm reading for a long time. Now that's where any ereader shines with every book a large print book.

Regards,
David

[TechniSol]

I'm a little amazed at the gamut this has run...

Speaking as one who has both intentionally and unintentionally shown their ass here, I wonder that we may all be a little better off if we occasionally crank the righteous indignation dial back a few notches... and respect the opinions of others even if we don't agree with them. I know, pot & kettle, guilty as charged.

I may kid a bit here, but my general inability to suffer fools easily sometimes makes it simpler to play one rather than go off on them. Plus, it's surprising sometimes what you learn while being underestimated. People will often go out of their way to answer questions you didn't know to ask or merely didn't wish to ask. Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I may not agree with you, but I will defend your right to say your peace -as long as you realize that having said it means that others have the right, nay, even obligation, to call you on it. When you're griping about non-issues someone will likely call you on it. Have the good sense to put aside your ego and stop blathering long enough to listen to the reply. I guarantee that it is almost inevitable that someone knows more about some part of it than you. Consider it a learning opportunity.

By the way, don't expect people to listen to you endlessly bitch about minor issues because they offend your doubtlessly self diagnosed OCD without getting tired of it when you continue to repeat it in other threads. Grow up and realise your issues are your's, not our's. Next time you feel you must blow off endlessly about a line or so of screen real estate, start a thread where you can do so in private and remember to wash your hands when done. Others with similar inclinations will gladly join you.

As to the Peaceniks, stand up and defend your positions respectfully and you'll have that peace. Peace at any price is not worth the bad taste it leaves in your mouth...

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

On a side note.... Wayyyyy back when, when all I had were books made out of paper, I read those books. I didn't make note of (snip)

I agree with most of what I snipped out.

One thing to realize though is that print books were typeset by professionals and did not suffer from many of the bugs that Kobo's automated typesetting software does. I don't mean to support the Kobo naysayers with that statement, but I'd be dishonest if I didn't acknowledge that fact. But the other fact is that I read to read and rarely notice these bugs, which is why I don't weigh those bugs as heavily as some people would.

(That said, Kobo developers, I would still like to see those bugs fixed!)

Originally Posted by TechniSol

I know, pot & kettle, guilty as charged.

I'm a little kettle,
short and stout.
Here is my handle,
...

The problem is that some of these complainers tweak me in the wrong way. What they say is more or less true. By that I mean what they say is true, though probably not as significant as they state. What they would like fixed, I would like fixed. The thing is, I also see the other side: many of the bugs are insignificant for Kobo's (probable) target audience and the design decisions are probably appropriate for that audience. That means that Kobo's devices aren't ideal for me, but I buy them because they do their task well. (By that I mean they handle DRM'ed ePubs and PDFs from the library or stores, DRM free ePubs and PDFs for other sources, and can be modified without rooting.)

Perhaps it's a flaw of being Canadian, but: I don't think it's right to buy a product that is meant for someone else and complain when it doesn't meet my esoteric expectations. If that is wrong, I send my sincere apologies: I really am sorry.

[TechniSol]

It's evidence of a greater problem. Most people simply don't relate to anything except in the way by which it affects them. Not to say they can't learn to think in broader terms, but it's work, and harder, and I'm tired...

It amazes me that so many see only their side of an issue and fully fail to recognize there might just be another argument or a compromise to be had... except when I do it, of course.