50 Essentiall Epic Fantasies

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

I'd love to have a "MR Top 50 Epic Fantasies List" It would be a complicated poll to set up. In fact I'd like one for every genre.

You don't set up a poll. You have people list their top 50 in the order they like them and then you take all the results and make one list from it. Granted, you do have to take into account the order of the books in each list when you are making up the results.

So a book at #10 and #5 is not as highly rated as the same book at #11 and #1. But is as highly rated at #11 and #4.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I guess I just don't really care much about "fantasy" subgenre labels any more. Epic, High, Low, Urban, Paranormal, New Weird, Steampunk, Grimdark, Historical, Magical Realism ... it's all rock 'n' roll to me. I'll read any of it (right up until it comes down with Sprawling Franchiseitis--then I'm out).

About the only distinction I make is "real" world (w/ magic or whatever) vs completely made-up world. Beyond that it doesn't really matter to me. And depending on the work, I will lump science fiction in with fantasy.

[DiapDealer]

In case anyone's interested in the wrap-up of List-o-rama 2013.
Essential Epic Fantasies wrap-up.

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Good Luck.. That would be one huge poll. And you'd still get complaints.

I went with the Listopia list, so we'll see if that works https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=215875

[WillAdams]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There's another thread about bad fantasy and Le Guin was mentioned as being drek (sic). Granted, I did it because she is.

In your opinion.

In that same thread, I listed several reasons why it was well worth reading and deservedly considered a classic which at least one person supported.

My problem isn't w/ the lists, it's w/ the characterization of them as ``Essential'' -- if I create a list of ``Essential'' woodworking tools and it lacks a saw or a drill, then there's something wrong w/ the list and it fails to meet the expectations any reasonable person would have that the list allow one to accomplish basic woodworking tasks --- if someone creates a list of ``Essential'' fantasy, then it needs to cover the works which are most influential, and which actually have something to say about humanity so as to be worth reading.

An excellent exercise examining this last point is to compare Barry Hughart's _Bridge of Birds_ w/ the original draft (the latter is available on-line) --- similar story, similar characters, same writing style, but one is only of historical / academic interest, while the other won two awards for best fantasy novel of that year.

How much of the EFP ``dreck'' which makes up much of the lists in question won any notability beyond filling some editor's quota for number of books to profitably print?

[pwalker8]

One thing that I would note is that I suspect there is a big dividing line, age wise, once you get past the obvious choices (i.e. LOTR). I'm old enough to be comfortable with the older style of writing, so I would be more likely to pick some of the older books from prior to the 60's (for example, the Worm Ouroboros, first published in 1922). Those not comfortable with the style, probably can't stand such older books.

Some of the books in those lists I really didn't care for (and I question the definition when they include the older classics), other books that I loved aren't even on many younger people's radar.

[DiapDealer]

So now "essential" fantasy means "most influential and says something about humanity" fantasy? Even if I grant you the moving definition (which I don't), you think THAT should somehow make a list less subjective and more definitive?

[WillAdams]

Okay, what's ``of the utmost importance, basic, indispensable, necessary'' about all of the EFP cluttering up these lists?

In what way is a tawdry novel about BDSM important, basic, indispensable or necessary?

What is it that makes a fantasy novel ``Essential''?

[JSWolf]

I do think my idea of creating a MR top 50 fantasy list in post #46 is the only fair way to do it. Who wants to take on the job?

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do think my idea of creating a MR top 50 fantasy list in post #46 is the only fair way to do it. Who wants to take on the job?

Did you vote on the list in Post #49?

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

Okay, what's ``of the utmost importance, basic, indispensable, necessary'' about all of the EFP cluttering up these lists?

Because the authors says it's so.

Holy Crap! It's just a list. No one is demanding that everyone must read each and every book on the lists and it's one of many book list spread across the Internet.

If you don't like the list, make you own and get rid of all the EFP (I really hate that acronym). And I'd also suggest you not publish it, because someone will surely end up asking you why you have all those crappy books in your list.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

What is it that makes a fantasy novel ``Essential''?

This little debate hasn't made it crystal-clear that it can't be defined absolutely? That it's clearly a very personal, subjective concept? You're being entirely too literal. Why do you so badly NEED these lists to mean something more than they obviously do? Why do you NEED everyone to recognise the "importance" of the works of fantasy you think are important? Let me tell you exactly how I interpreted the title for their fun little exercise:

"50 works of fantasy (mostly epic) that I (I, meaning the creator of this list on whose reading experience and tastes the selections depend) think are good enough for everyone to have read (but I won't really hold it against you if you HAVEN'T read them or don't agree with them because clearly... everyone's mileage will vary--and mostly it was intended as a fun little project with some other blogging friends of mine). In other words, works that I (again the creator of this list) found 'essential' on my journey as a fan of fantasy 'epics.'"

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

Did you vote on the list in Post #49?

Why would I when it's not a valid poll/list? The only way to make a list from MR is to do it from everyone's 50 choices and it has to be weighted based on positions in the lists. Otherwise, the results are worthless.

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Why would I when it's not a valid poll/list? The only way to make a list from MR is to do it from everyone's 50 choices and it has to be weighted based on positions in the lists. Otherwise, the results are worthless.

It is weighted based on the positions of the books in each voter's list.

When you click on a book's score the definition of score pops up:
"Points are based on the ranking of the book on each list and the number of people have voted for it. A book's "score" is the total."

[Geralt]

people you take lists too seriously
i would hate to go shopping with you. wouldn't be able to buy any candy outside of the list most probably