Internet Regulation and Censorship - Interesting Open Letter to MPAA

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

+1, Stonetools.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Once the Atlantic was an open sea, in which every captain of a ship did what was right in his eyes, and piracy flourished. Once the Atlantic sea routes became central to international commerce, the world's navies hunted down the pirates and established the rule of law across the Atlantic. I expect the same will happen as the Internet becomes more and more important to world commerce.

Piracy might have been right in an individual captain's eyes but was it RIGHT?

The internet was built to be open, with the belief that the sharing of information is RIGHT.

Internet 2.0 could go either way of course, built to be closed or open.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Piracy might have been right in an individual captain's eyes but was it RIGHT?

The internet was built to be open, with the belief that the sharing of information is RIGHT.

Internet 2.0 could go either way of course, built to be closed or open.

NO. The Internet began as a project of DARPA, with the goal that the military would be able to communicate across the country in the event of a nuclear attack.

The uses of Internet has changed over the time and it is now a space for the public to interact and to do business.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

+1, Stonetools.

Thanks. Here is an interesting poll:

The JZ Analytics online survey of 1,001 Americans was conducted December 27-28, 2011 and has a margin of error of +/-3.2%.

I. Summary of Poll Results:

A. General Questions

Is online piracy a problem? 82.1% of Americans believe online piracy and the online sale of counterfeit drugs are a problem; only 3.3% of Americans did not see it as a problem at all.

Should anti-piracy laws be strengthened? 79.7% of Americans believe it is important for our country to strengthen the laws against online piracy and the sale of counterfeit drugs; only 3.9% of Americans believe it is not important at all to strengthen anti-piracy laws.

Ever used pirated material? 80.1% of Americans have never downloaded pirated music or videos without paying for it; only 13.7% have. Even among the Internet Generation of 18-29 year old Americans, a majority (50.3%) have never downloaded pirated material without paying for it.

Ever ordered drugs without a prescription online? 95.9% of Americans have never ordered a prescription online without having a prescription, while only 2.8% of Americans have.

LINK

I suspect that the "spokesperson" and his supporters are in the three per cent.

[DiapDealer]

Is online piracy a problem? 82.1% of Americans believe online piracy and the online sale of counterfeit drugs are a problem; only 3.3% of Americans did not see it as a problem at all.

Should anti-piracy laws be strengthened? 79.7% of Americans believe it is important for our country to strengthen the laws against online piracy and the sale of counterfeit drugs; only 3.9% of Americans believe it is not important at all to strengthen anti-piracy laws.

I'm not doubting the numbers, at all, but was online piracy actually lumped in with the online sale of counterfeit drugs in the wording of the poll? The numbers aren't very impressive (not to mention relevant) if it was. I mean come on.

EDIT: Nevermind I can see for myself that they did just that.

9. How important is it for our country to strengthen the laws to crack down on websites that sell counterfeit drugs or illegally pirated movies, videos and music?

That's a bit ridiculous

"Do you think online piracy and online identity theft are a problem?"

"Do you think online piracy and online stalking of minors by pedophiles is a problem?"

"Do you think it's important to strengthen laws against online piracy and online stalking of minors by pedophiles?"

Talk about stacking the deck.

[stonetools]

Well, maybe you're right about stacking-except if piracy sites typically offer both pirated content AND counterfeit drugs. I don't know: I avoid such sites .
Still, the poll is strong evidence that the public isn't OK with online piracy and wants something done. The current Administration certainly sees it as a problem, even while opposing SOPA.

Let us be clear—online piracy is a real problem that harms the American economy, threatens jobs for significant numbers of middle class workers and hurts some of our nation's most creative and innovative companies and entrepreneurs. It harms everyone from struggling artists to production crews, and from startup social media companies to large movie studios. While we are strongly committed to the vigorous enforcement of intellectual property rights, existing tools are not strong enough to root out the worst online pirates beyond our borders. That is why the Administration calls on all sides to work together to pass sound legislation this year that provides prosecutors and rights holders new legal tools to combat online piracy originating beyond U.S. borders while staying true to the principles outlined above in this response. We should never let criminals hide behind a hollow embrace of legitimate American values.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Still, the poll is strong evidence that the public isn't OK with online piracy and wants something done.

The poll is strong evidence that the public isn't OK with counterfeit drugs and wants something done.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The poll is strong evidence that the public isn't OK with counterfeit drugs and wants something done.

OK, you guys win. I'll look for an online piracy only poll.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by stonetools

NO. The Internet began as a project of DARPA, with the goal that the military would be able to communicate across the country in the event of a nuclear attack.

Well, no.

The designer of the net on purpose designed in some principles that have been extremely good for the invention of new things. It is these principles that now are threatened.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by tompe

Well, no.

The designer of the net on purpose designed in some principles that have been extremely good for the invention of new things. It is these principles that now are threatened.

There was no one designer of the Internet. It "jest growed", really, although in response to various initiatives from government, scientists, entrepreneurs, and yes, engineers. Now that its became a vehicle for commercial enterprise, governments at the prodding of the public and business, will gradually establish the rule of law over the Internet. The Obama Administration is well aware of the possibility of a threat to innovation.

Any effort to combat online piracy must guard against the risk of online censorship of lawful activity and must not inhibit innovation by our dynamic businesses large and small. Across the globe, the openness of the Internet is increasingly central to innovation in business, government, and society and it must be protected. To minimize this risk, new legislation must be narrowly targeted only at sites beyond the reach of current U.S. law, cover activity clearly prohibited under existing U.S. laws, and be effectively tailored, with strong due process and focused on criminal activity. Any provision covering Internet intermediaries such as online advertising networks, payment processors, or search engines must be transparent and designed to prevent overly broad private rights of action that could encourage unjustified litigation that could discourage startup businesses and innovative firms from growing.

Note that the Administration did not say that ANY anti-piracy legislation would stifle innovation: quite the contrary

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Now that its became a vehicle for commercial enterprise, governments at the prodding of the p[public and business, will gradually establish the rule of law over the Internet.

There already is rule of law over the Internet, as Megaupload sorely found out.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by cjr72

There already is rule of law over the Internet, as Megaupload sorely found out.

From the Obama Administration response:

While we are strongly committed to the vigorous enforcement of intellectual property rights, existing tools are not strong enough to root out the worst online pirates beyond our borders

Frankly, I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that there is rule of law over the Internet-not when anyone is a Google search away from getting just about kind of pirated content they want, without fear of consequence. The quintessential definition of lawlessness is where you can violate the law without any expectation of being caught.

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by stonetools

From the Obama Administration response:



Frankly, I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that there is rule of law over the Internet-not when anyone is a Google search away from getting just about kind of pirated content they want, without fear of consequence. The quintessential definition of lawlessness is where you can violate the law without any expectation of being caught.

So I guess Megaupload was taken down by a group of vigilantes. As far as law enforcement goes when do they ever not say their existing tools are not strong enough?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The "technologists" believe that you should be able to do anything you want on your computing devices and on the Internet. Anything that interferes with that freedom (anti-piracy legislation, DRM, proprietary formats) are all to be reviled and resisted.

No, anything that interferes with that freedom is antithetical to the nature of the internet, and will not work except as patchwork solutions for limited-scope problems.

Censorship=damage=rerouting time. The internet was built that way--not specifically to fight censorship, but to route around dropped carriers, bad code loops, and overloaded servers. "Data didn't get through; try another method" is what made digital business possible; one cannot simultaneously support that approach and try to block it.

Its is therefore inevitable that the Internet will be brought under the rule of law-the public will demand it and government will respond to public pressure.

Might as well mandate that pi be equal to three, or that cars get 75 miles to the gallon of gas. Or, sticking to more social realms, that all children get high test scores in school. The only way to achieve these results is to either rewrite reality, or change the standards by which success is measured.

Everything the writer objects to are attempts by business and/or the government to bring the rule of law to the Internet. Unfortunately for the author, such attempts will continue , because the Internet is just too important to be left to the technologists.

As long as "the technologists" are writing the code, they'll be the ones shaping the future of the internet. We have politicians who don't know the difference between a document and the program that opens it, trying to mandate how people can use both. We have even more politicians who think that computers have "photos" and "movies" and "songs" and "ebooks" and "emails," rather than really long collections of ones and zeros which are being processed through various filter programs to display them so human perceptions can make sense of them.

Once the Atlantic sea routes became central to international commerce, the world's navies hunted down the pirates and established the rule of law across the Atlantic. I expect the same will happen as the Internet becomes more and more important to world commerce.

When did we eliminate piracy in the Atlantic?

But real-world comparisons with physical piracy are lacking an essential detail: Real-world pirates are directly interfering with commercial activity, and therefore have reason to stay near the most profitable routes. Internet "pirates" have no interest in participating directly with commercial media activity, and have no reason to spend time in populated areas.

Instead, the "pirates" spend time in obscure niches of the internet... until the public finds them and demands they hand over their loot--an interesting inverse from real-world piracy. Internet "pirates" who hoard are never found; it's only the ones who share openly who are at risk. This is why digital piracy will never go away. Shutting down Megaupload and various torrent sites only cuts down on the leeches.

[darryl]

Finally some discussion of the substance! Thanks to Stonetools for putting another view. And to DiapDealer and murraypaul for their posts about the Poll referred to. It reminds me of Sir Humphrey demonstrating to Bernard in an episode of Yes Prime Minister how such Polls in fact work. It ends with Sir Humphrey complementing Bernard on being "the perfect balanced sample" after he gave contradictory answers in quick succession to the same questions. And finally to Elfwreck for pointing out the flaws in the analogy with physical piracy and the Atlantic.

A point which I would like to make is that the law itself is brought into contempt by ridiculous and unworkable laws which are born of a lack of understanding by Politicians (or possibly cynical politicians wishing to appear to be doing something whilst knowing damn well it is fruitless). The technology at the moment is beyond the effective control of governments, and they hate it. Some of the legislation being proposed brings to mind Gandhi's salt march, or King Canute issuing commands to the tide. And the price for attempting such legislation is paid in loss of freedoms and privacy.