What would you pay for a gadget made under better conditions?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

How realistic is this "easy" choice of where to work thing though ?
Even if true, it may be for another job in the same situation, or in a worse set of conditions, or simply a horrible job.
It's usually possible anywhere to get some kind of a job - but will it be a job you might want to do, be safe to do, or with decent working conditions and standards ?
The " there's no problem, 'they' can always get another job" mantra doesn't work with me I'm afraid - especially in these straitened times.

The choice is very realistic. Well paid jobs with decent conditions are waiting. Ready to sue the employers for the slightest infraction. And these days workers are winning most of the cases.

Go to South China now. Hungry lawyers are waiting at the factory doors. And now workers are winning the majority of complaints. Working on an assembly line is no picnic. But the conditions are clean, safe, and quite pleasant. I often have lunch in the factories and speak the local language. Workers feel empowered, in control of their lives.

And for those that don't like factory work there are plenty of service jobs.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Yup!
When it comes to tools I know I'll only use once or twice I'll happily go for the cheapest of the cheap at a Dollar Store. For tools I'll be keeping and using repeatedly I'll go with a Brand-name product I can research first. It's the engineering ethic at work, not parsimoney.

I have been thinking about it.
A good tool is a lifetime investment. I still have some tools from my grandfather. So considerable money paid for a really good carving chisel, or a small metalworking lathe are well spent.
On the other hand, we do not expect out gadgets to last (or be relevant) more than a few years.

I have an old reader, Sony PRS-500. 5 years old, still in great condition, and yet, hopelessly obsolete comparing with the new models. A much better device can be purchased now for much lower price than the price of new PRS-500 five years ago. So you can't expect me to pay high premium for well made e-ink reader, or a mobile phone and view it as a good investment.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by kacir

I have been thinking about it.
A good tool is a lifetime investment. I still have some tools from my grandfather.

Heh. I have vague memories from my rugrat days of my grandfather's toolkit. (He was a carpenter.)
He had stuff I've never seen again and a few I have:
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/copy...on_Plane_.html
Never got to "play" with them, though.

It is interesting to ponder how the modern consumer society has evolved some extremely sophisticated devices (cellphones, calculators, etc) into disposable device territory. Stuff so cheap and readily available we barely appreciate their inherent value. Like, what would Newton have achieved if he had run into a solar-powered calculator like the ones that line drugstore checkouts in blister packs?

I expect eink readers to get there eventually.
Possibly sooner than we might guess.
(Though not this year. )

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

About a year ago they had those reports about the suicides. And in the end the figures showed that suicide rates at many European companies (Air France was an example) are several times higher than at Foxconn.

The suicides are a hard thing to evaluate, mental health issues being what they are. Not a red flag per-se to me.
What I personally find troubling, though, are the *repeated* dust explosions. That is a long-time *known* and cheaply *solved* problem.
That puts the issue into a separate category.
(shrug)

Not looking to bad-mouth anybody but in most places those are firing offenses for the managers and engineers involved. (At a minimum.)

[geenp]

Companies put pressure on the OEMs to keep prices low because they want to keep their margins high at the increasingly low prices they charge. I think it's important that we realise that a lot of this stems from consumers demanding lower prices, it isn't just corporations being greedy. We may not have asked for it but we do vote with our wallets and when demand inevitably increases with price drops, it's pretty clear to the corporations what it is that we want.

[cjr72]

Originally Posted by geenp

I think it's important that we realise that a lot of this stems from consumers demanding lower prices, it isn't just corporations being greedy. We may not have asked for it but we do vote with our wallets and when demand inevitably increases with price drops, it's pretty clear to the corporations what it is that we want.

I would hate to live in a world where consumers don't hold companies' feet to the fire by demanding lower prices. I know we're talking about electronics here but it wasn't that long ago that people paid a much higher percentage of their income just for food before the advent of national supermarket chains. It's easy to focus only on the negative and wax eloquent about the little locally owned main street grocer for instance, but efficiencies driven in part by demand for lower prices has been a net positive for humanity.

[fjtorres]

Well, what do you know, Apple actually responded to the griping.
Not sure it means much but as a PR move it can't hurt:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apples...54?tag=nl.e539

External inspections of Foxconn facilities, interviews with employees, etc.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-57...col;topStories.
Shows a certain amount of confidence, at least.

[johnnyb]

I would pay more for gadgets in relation to their price/cost of production relation etc.
That means, I would likely pay more for a Kindle but not for an iPad or other device that is overpriced...

[Daithi]

When I buy something I generally don't stop and wonder if someone was abused or exploited in producing the item I am buying. This applies to eReaders, phones, cups of coffee, a pair of shoes, or whatever. The U.S., and most nations, have laws that prevent its workers from abuse/exploitation. Other countries may not. Or, they may have very different ideas in regards to abuse/exploitation than we have in the West.

I don't think the answer is to pay more for items made under certain conditions, but to not trade at all with countries that allow workers to be abused. However, it should also be taken into account that if we cut off trade with less developed countries, the "exploited" factory worker may now end up out of a job and forced into the sex trade or worse. So, when deciding when someone is exploited/abused we need to be very careful.

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

Apple is getting a lot of heat for conditions at the Foxconn factory, but Foxconn also supplies parts to Amazon and B&N, among many others.

Are gadgets too cheap?

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...logy&emc=cta1#

Would you pay more for a phone, tablet, or ereader that was made in your own country, or that was certified to be made under ethical conditions?

Poll coming, please be patient.

I personally don't think the gadgets are too cheap.
I think companies do extort their employees, but I don't think they necessarily need to increase the price of the gadgets when they raise prices on wages.
I believe companies like these could easily keep the same price,and pay their employees 25% more, while keeping 25% of their profits less to themselves, and less to investors.

I recently read an abhorring article, about a business CEO who was doing 'the hard decision' to not give himself a 5%, 10%, not even 15 or 25% increase in salary, but decided to just simply DOUBLE his salary.
And he admonished others to do the same!
Doing this, he even said that when you are doing a job on a $200.000 salary that is anything else than steering the company, you are doing a lousy job!
Yes, in other words, he was saying, not only did he DOUBLE his salary, he also got rid of a load of his work, leave it for his employees who could do the same job (or better) for a lower wage!

How's that sound?

That sounds like some serious laziness and greed to me!

A true article on MSN financial news and advise!

I immediately thumbed it down, after my vote, the votes on the article went down from 100% positive, to 50% positive; which makes me believe only 2 people voted for it.

It totally enrages me, how business ceo's can,without a consciousness, increase their wages as they please, while their whole year salary could easily employ 10 or more employees in their companies, and they still try to pry pennies off laborer's wages!

It all enrages me! The world is shifting from employees, to people who start their own business, tired of being abused!

[philpalm]

In a way the point of view is sorta influenced by availability of news. A very recent interview of foxconn workers was hard to get! Being interview by foreign press is a punishable offense and of course it is hard to get a true picture of the actual working conditions in the factory.

Apple is hesitating on opening a plant in Brazil. The governmental offsets and other factors may delay an opening of an Apple branded product.(in addition Apple likes to dismiss rumors and push other rumors in order to have a bit of secrecy.)

Basically the pressure to price drop on products can only get stronger. Quality stuff continue to hold their value (IPhone prices will never drop much) and stuff that are not in demand will drop drastically and disappear from the market (HP Touchpad)

[Penforhire]

The discussion about tools is one I find fascinating because I've wrestled with that decision myself. I own a few dirt-cheap Chinese tools from Harbor Freight, more (most) of my tools are Sears Craftsman level, some at the Proto level, and a very few of the Snap-On tier (Mac or whatever your favorite priced-as-if-made-of-gold brand is).

It has a lot to do with the actual amount and type work I intend and the nature of the tool itself. I find myself unwilling to pay Snap-On prices for hand wrenches. I've never had an unmodified Craftsman wrench (or socket) fail. Their warranty is iron-clad and can be exercised at any Sears location. If I was a professional mechanic I might invest more in every tool I buy.

For example, a 6" electronic caliper I got from Harbor Freight for $15 does that task at home just as well as the $100 Mitutoyo caliper I use at work (and was proven just as accurate). Nope, doesn't feel as nice or as durable but it still works.

But as a contrast, a cheap Chicago Pneumatic 3/8" impact driver someone gifted to me doesn't loosen the same nuts that my expensive Ingersoll Rand spins right off. Worth every penny when I did a classic vehicle restoration.

Tools are an example having of an awful lot of grey area in the choice of quality and brand.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

... or whatever your favorite priced-as-if-made-of-gold brand is.

This
First check the videos for JointMaker Pro and other tools only then look at the as-if-made-of-rhodium-encrusted-in-diamonds prices ;-)

[MrsJoseph]

I would pay a lot more for items made in the US & Canada (or other country that has ethical working conditions that could be verified). But especially in the US.

[Penforhire]

kacir, that is one odd bit of kit. I sort of "get" the idea of hand-powered tools (I own some planers and chisels) but, um, no, that's what a cross-cut sled, miter-clamps, and fence system are for on my table saw. Maybe a jointer for when I have to have perfect ends. That rig is... impractically beautiful, lol.