Fiction Writers as "Brand Names"

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by ischeriad

They should call them biographies, not autobiographies, and nobody would complain.

I believe the difference is that who provides the data and who has sign off power over the data being presented. The thread seems to complain about a ghostwriter but how about an editor? A ghostwriter is often an editor you puts down on paper the original thoughts of the person who's story is being written. Must the autobiographer be a fantastic story teller as well in order to make a book? We demand a good read but then complain about the source. I believe there is a clear difference between an autobiography that tells the story from the original persons point of view and a biography that takes an independent research point of view with a different set of biases. I would hate to see the terms autobiography and biography mucked up over ghostwriters and editors.

Dale

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

We demand a good read but then complain about the source.

For me, I can only complain if the source is misrepresented.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

For me, I can only complain if the source is misrepresented.

Me too. I do not like a book to be misrepresented but I do not consider ghostwriting a misrepresentation since it is just a clean up of the data presented by the person who's name is on the book. Or at least that is what is being represented to me. I realize that the editors, reviewers, and clean up names are not on the cover of the book. It is the ideas and perception of the facts that I want to read about for a biography. Now, for fiction, the author's name should be there since it is the presentation I am interested in as well as the ideas.

Dale

[Darqref]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Try "Tale of the Fox" and its sequel "Sentry Peak". Both "military fantasy" and very good indeed (IMHO). Both available from Baen.

Nope, Tale of the Fox is un-related to Sentry Peak. Sentry Peak is late American Civil War set into fantasy terms (sequel is "Marching Through Peachtree"). Tale of the Fox is midieval fantasy and is a reissue of a couple of earlier works about that character.

For Turtledove SF, Baen also has a reissue of some earlier works in the book "3xT". However, *my* favorite Turtledove is "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump".

He also has a multi-book World War II interrupted by alien invasion series (now up to nine books, I think, with 4 in the 1940s, 4 in the 1960s or so, and last one a bit later.) But they aren't Baen, and I haven't seen them in digital.
Roger

[Darqref]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

A victimless crime? I don't buy that for a moment. Twenty bucks spent on something which is not what it was advertised to be is simple fraud.

(snip)

The bottomline is that I'll be more careful about what I buy. Tally another reason for having limitless faith in mankind. I'm hoping for a new species soon!

I'll jump in here, but this might better be related to earlier posts in the thread...

A counter-example of the thread has occurred several times at Baen. One well-known author comes up with the basic idea, and does a detailed outline. Another less-well known author takes the outline and runs with it. The book has both names on it, and, yes, the more well known one gets bigger type (thats marketing, and both authors would rather sell more copies!).

In one specific case, I'll say that David Drake wrote the outline, and Eric Flint finished the books, but that work is truly a joint authorship. And more research was done after the collaboration started, and a trilogy turned into er, um, five? books. The starting book in the series is "An Oblique Approach" and is sorta alternate history, but has a continuing perturbation instead of a single event.

Roger

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Darqref

Nope, Tale of the Fox is un-related to Sentry Peak. Sentry Peak is late American Civil War set into fantasy terms (sequel is "Marching Through Peachtree"). Tale of the Fox is midieval fantasy and is a reissue of a couple of earlier works about that character.

For Turtledove SF, Baen also has a reissue of some earlier works in the book "3xT". However, *my* favorite Turtledove is "The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump".

He also has a multi-book World War II interrupted by alien invasion series (now up to nine books, I think, with 4 in the 1940s, 4 in the 1960s or so, and last one a bit later.) But they aren't Baen, and I haven't seen them in digital.
Roger

You can see them now in Digital format....

http://www.booksonboard.com/index.ph...edove,%20Harry

[vivaldirules]

There are several good examples mentioned here and I'm sure things are rarely clear cut. When does an editor cross the line to coauthor, for example? What if someone leaves detailed notes about a book before they die? What if an amateur writer gets help from a professional? But I'm still disturbed by marketing practices, which I generally equate with creative lying, particularly when they seem bent on deception though perhaps legal.

[mogui]

Originally Posted by Darqref

I'll jump in here, but this might better be related to earlier posts in the thread...

A counter-example of the thread has occurred several times at Baen. One well-known author comes up with the basic idea, and does a detailed outline. Another less-well known author takes the outline and runs with it. The book has both names on it, and, yes, the more well known one gets bigger type (thats marketing, and both authors would rather sell more copies!).

In one specific case, I'll say that David Drake wrote the outline, and Eric Flint finished the books, but that work is truly a joint authorship. And more research was done after the collaboration started, and a trilogy turned into er, um, five? books. The starting book in the series is "An Oblique Approach" and is sorta alternate history, but has a continuing perturbation instead of a single event.

Roger

These collaborations can turn out quite well. The original author still has a hand in the work, and we hope, is supervising the final product.

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

There are several good examples mentioned here and I'm sure things are rarely clear cut. When does an editor cross the line to coauthor, for example? What if someone leaves detailed notes about a book before they die? What if an amateur writer gets help from a professional? But I'm still disturbed by marketing practices, which I generally equate with creative lying, particularly when they seem bent on deception though perhaps legal.

Good insights! Things are not as simple as they seem. Or sometimes they are simpler than my railing at reality has made them. It is good to keep a clear head.

My favorite non-Fleming Bond writer was Kingsley Amis, who wrote Colonel Sun in 1968. Of course the Ian Fleming Novels kept me up all night many times. I see there are new ones by Raymond Benson that I haven't tasted. Bond is best served as a serious bad guy. I don't like him trivialized and comedified as in the Roger Moore movies.

[vivaldirules]

I was going to stop thinking about this subject but had to post this one last (I promise) comment after I checked Sony's Connect store for their latest offerings which happens to include the V. C. Andrews title "Secrets in the Attic". Yes, they show the same cover that Amazon and B&N do and they similarly falsely identify the author as V. C. Andrews. Beneath the description of the book is an "Author Description" which, when you click on it, gives you a photo and brief bio of Andrews which ends with "...Andrews died in December, 1986 at the age of 62. She left a legacy of books that have been sold worldwide and translated into 13 foreign languages." Maybe there's an attribution in there somewhere to someone else writing the book, but I don't see it.