Digital Underclass 2: The future of books and libraries

As added fun, the libraries in my city will not allow you to borrow an ebook over the library network. I tried to borrow a book by hooking up to the library's wireless and it told me to borrow their books elsewhere!

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No, you're missing the point. All that is required is *not* a library card. All that is required is a library card, a computer, *and* internet access. Which can be problematic for people below the poverty line.

In fairness, they don't have eReaders either.

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by RHWright

Absolutely. And, BTW, not everyone can afford to buy books, especially in the volume they borrow from the library. The literacy benefits far outweigh the costs to the community.

So, basically, you're challenging the whole idea of a library altogether? As a writer, again, I think the benefits outweigh the costs. And it's good marketing. How many readers discover new authors by trying them out for free first?

I don't believe this is necessarily the case. School libraries have particular aims. The public library serves the community as a whole. Careful coordination and management of resources reduces unnecessary overlap, in my experience.

In response to your first point -- I agree. I believe that there is an economic benefit to providing reading resources to those who can't otherwise afford them. On the other hand, I don't see why libraries should provide unlimited free books to those who make over a hundred K per year.

Yes I am challenging the basic idea of libraries. Why do,we need them? As a writer, if you feel it is good marketing, then you should feel free to offer some of your work for free as a promotion. You don't need a library to do that.

In terms of the mission of school libraries, you will find very similar books in a K-12 library as in a public library. If school libraries were opened up year round and after school, I believe you could serve the community much more efficiently.

However, I'm not insisting I have the "right" vision. My goal was to hear from some of you about what you think the role of a library should be. I don't take it for granted that the library of tommorow and it's increasingly digital resources should look like the library of today.

Originally Posted by emellaich

In terms of the mission of school libraries, you will find very similar books in a K-12 library as in a public library. If school libraries were opened up year round and after school, I believe you could serve the community much more efficiently.

I think that you would find that school libraries are quite different from public libraries. School libraries are geared towards the curriculum, which means that they are devoid of almost everything written for an adult audience. Want a good book on electrical engineering, a deeper discussion of history, business databases, international newspapers, or just about anything considered too touchy for developing minds ... then you need a public library. School librarians (when they can afford to have them) also have more specialized knowledge than public librarians. Public libraries also seem to be an informal sort of social services these days, especially in the cities. Need help finding a job? Are you homeless and need to get off the streets for a few hours? Do you need computer training or literacy training? You'll probably find better help at your public library than a proper social services office (and these generally aren't the type of people who you want to pull into schools anyway).

Even when it comes down to people who use libraries to make money, such as businesses using databases or periodicals to do research, I'm confident that you'll find that libraries are a bigger boost to the economy than doing nothing and far less of a burden on the economy than forcing everyone to make the own way.

Remember, sharing is good.

Maybe small city and town libraries are different.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Even when it comes down to people who use libraries to make money, such as businesses using databases or periodicals to do research, I'm confident that you'll find that libraries are a bigger boost to the economy than doing nothing and far less of a burden on the economy than forcing everyone to make the own way.

Remember, sharing is good.

Maybe small city and town libraries are different.

On the other hand, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Libraries have to be paid for, and they are paid for by property taxes.

What happens when you can't pay your property taxes? The government seizes your home, kicks you out at gunpoint, and sells it to the highest bidder.

It happens. It happens a lot. It doesn't get reported, since it's not news when the government steals things. But it happened to my elderly parents.

Is providing libraries to everyone worth taking away people's houses?

[allinhi/]

In my city we have a community college and city library sharing a location and funding, the first new library location in 20 years. In general I would say that the computers get more use than the books. My cable was interrupted (critters chewed the cable) and I took my laptop to the library to do some work. The dozen or more workstations were constantly busy. Also serious rsearch is very difficult without access to non internet resources. I feel the growing climate attacking goverment supplied services comes from the assumptions people make, that despite steadily reduced resources, if poor service is given, govt. and its (lousy) employees are at fault. This of course is the argument used to further reduce resources. Libraries and other basic service being attacked is proof of the level of economic ignorance and short sighted selfishness rampant in our modern world.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by emellaich

On the other hand, I don't see why libraries should provide unlimited free books to those who make over a hundred K per year.

That's going to be a hard sell to people paying hundreds of dollars annually to the library through property taxes.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by emellaich

In terms of the mission of school libraries, you will find very similar books in a K-12 library as in a public library. If school libraries were opened up year round and after school, I believe you could serve the community much more efficiently.

And some countries do, as I mentioned in post #43.

[xg4bx]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

On the other hand, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Libraries have to be paid for, and they are paid for by property taxes.

What happens when you can't pay your property taxes? The government seizes your home, kicks you out at gunpoint, and sells it to the highest bidder.

It happens. It happens a lot. It doesn't get reported, since it's not news when the government steals things. But it happened to my elderly parents.

Is providing libraries to everyone worth taking away people's houses?

fair enough. i would also add that homes without children, or children out of school shouldnt be forced to continue funding the school district through property taxes.

to use a cliche, thats how they get you. your house could be paid off, your property could be paid off but god forbid something happens and you cant pay the property tax, you lose everything. state houses should have been stormed like the bastille when that was signed off on.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

fair enough. i would also add that homes without children, or children out of school shouldnt be forced to continue funding the school district through property taxes.

to use a cliche, thats how they get you. your house could be paid off, your property could be paid off but god forbid something happens and you cant pay the property tax, you lose everything. state houses should have been stormed like the bastille when that was signed off on.

Where I live, the library is a private foundation. We don't have government involvement at all.

[Keryl Raist]

Originally Posted by allinhi/

In my city we have a community college and city library sharing a location and funding, the first new library location in 20 years. In general I would say that the computers get more use than the books. My cable was interrupted (critters chewed the cable) and I took my laptop to the library to do some work. The dozen or more workstations were constantly busy.

This is what my libraries look like as well. For every one person browsing the stacks there's ten on the computers.

I'd expect we're going to see some sort of hybrid computer center/library/community location in the future. The books will get warehoused somewhere, and if you need one, interlibrary loan will get it for you. The thousand (or so) most popular books will be on hand for browsing and lending. The rest of the space will be for computers and gatherings.

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I think that you would find that school libraries are quite different from public libraries. ... Want a good book on electrical engineering, a deeper discussion of history, business databases, international newspapers, or just about anything considered too touchy for developing minds ...

See note below, many cities have college/university libraries that provide those things.

Originally Posted by allinhi/

In my city we have a community college and city library sharing a location and funding, the first new library location in 20 years.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

That's going to be a hard sell to people paying hundreds of dollars annually to the library through property taxes.

Correct, but I'm suggesting fewer services, less redundancy and therefore a reduction of taxes. Frankly, I suspect you will see increasing use of electronic resources and decreasing use of hard copy. As a result, we may find less need for the total number of locations we have now.

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

And some countries do, as I mentioned in post #43.

Originally Posted by Phogg

Where I live, the library is a private foundation. We don't have government involvement at all.

Interesting comments.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by emellaich

Correct, but I'm suggesting fewer services, less redundancy and therefore a reduction of taxes. Frankly, I suspect you will see increasing use of electronic resources and decreasing use of hard copy. As a result, we may find less need for the total number of locations we have now.

Totally agree.

[taming]

Speaking of libraries...

I was on the Calgary Public Library site and found the following things that you do not need a local library card to access.

Tumble Books for kids an online collection of TumbleBooks - animated, talking picture books which teach kids the joy of reading in a format they'll love.
http://www.tumblebooks.com/library/a...umblebooks.asp

Audio Book Cloud is an online audio book library collection of streaming audio books. No checkout necessary - just start listening.
http://www.tumblebooks.com/talkingbooks/home.asp

I am in Alberta, though not in Calgary, so I don't know if IP address makes a difference for these resources.

[emilikins]

Libraries do not kick people out of their homes, and generally get a very small slice of the tax pie. Our city, which is a major metro area, the average property tax payer only has $75-$150 of their property tax going to the library - and we're not a low tax city.