Ebook prices

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Publishers are oblivious to a *huge* section of the market: the people who never bought new books. The entire used bookstore economy is invisible to them; they've got no idea what those people are willing to pay for ebooks, no idea how many potential customers have never been on their pie charts.

A lot of those people are willing to buy ebooks--at the prices they'd pay for used pbooks. Those aren't losses; they're customers who otherwise don't exist. And whether those people stick to paper, or ebook freebies, or download from the darknet (and potentially become "criminals") isn't relevant to publishers--they are people who aren't buying now, who would be if someone were selling on their terms.

I think this varies by location. Perhaps, it's a West Coast thing. Used book stores and thrift stores are not everywhere especially in the East. To drive 60 miles to the nearest used book store in hopes of finding something reasonable priced is not palatable. And prices in these stores are not are low as they used to be. (Prepare a second mortgage for non-fiction books.) After all, they have leases, payroll, electric bills just like the Big Box stores.

That leaves us with the internet. Again, prices vary with many on my fiction wishlist between $4 - $10. Some are higher, if available at all. Then you have the unknown condition of the book and 7-10 day delivery. Plus recycling when finished.

For some this may justify paying a few dollars more for the ebook. Or you may find as I did the ebook is cheaper than the used print edition.

I am beginning to suspect that used book retailers are looking at ebook prices also when pricing their own inventory. Nothing scientific but trends I see in my own little world.

Fortunately, my library has a good loan system and they have been able to
procure for me all my requests this year. Currently, my cap is $0 (link below) which is better than used book prices.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ght=calculator

[Chi Cygni]

a whine from a European... I would even pay for the whole collection of Timothy Zahn SW ebooks, even $10 a piece to have them nicely formatted and to keep and re-read. But they are not available to me (another whole story of geographically restricted, I know). "The Choices of One" most recent release is some $16 at Amazon and 14,50 euro at Kobo (basically the same thing) I bought it from Kobo for the ePub ereader I have (Opus).

Nowadays I just check Limited Time Offers from Amazon and "buy" for $ 0.00 whatever I think is of random interest. Zahn's "The Heir to the Empire" anniversary edition is available but is just volume 1 for $20 ! That is absolute rip off. The only other I paid for from Amazon was some slightly less than $10 for "Eyewall" and that was a good read (couldn't stop till 7 am)

I don't want to clutter my house with pbooks anymore since I have ereader but I won't agree to broad daylight theft right out of my pocket either. Ereader is the only way for me since I don't live in a country of origin, and here no access to library or bookstore in my language (and English very limited). And postage prices double the price of books.

One thing I noticed is when there is a list of Free books for Kindle at Amazon here at MR whenever I check the link a $0 for US is some $5 for Europe. Free indeed.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

Having recently retired and devoted far more time to reading, I am spending more time investigating independent authors and small publishers. One way that I am reducing my dependence on the big publishers is to subscribe to avid reader sites...

Out of curiosity (and always looking for more avenues for promotion ), can you give me a few examples of the reader sites you frequent? Especially those that have a goodly-sized science fiction readership.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You should understand that publishers are selling, for example, every copy of GRRM's latest that they can print at $18.81 hard cover and every e-book they can download at $14.99. They have been selling every copy of Unbroken in both formats at those "unsustainable " prices all year long. Maybe they aren't as clueless about prices as you think, because there is zero evidence that they are losing customers selling at those prices.

Yes, most publishers have a couple of blockbuster authors with guaranteed to release bestsellers at hardcover prices, and GRRM's one of them (with a TV series based on the series doesn't hurt, either). These authors are the ones that keep the publishers in the black, and subsidize the other authors whose books didn't quite click and the sales didn't make up for the author's advance.

I see that Gollancz appears to be attempting to collar the 1960s-2000 SF backlist, and they're pricing the ebooks mostly at $5.33 or $8.66. I don't know why they chose those prices, but I think they may find that the $8.66 price is too high. I think most of the appeal to this backlist is from people who read these authors long ago, and while they might buy one or two favorite books, at these prices they won't buy them all.

[mldavis2]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Out of curiosity (and always looking for more avenues for promotion ), can you give me a few examples of the reader sites you frequent? Especially those that have a goodly-sized science fiction readership.

Baen is perhaps the obvious choice for searching for sci-fi books online. I don't recall if they have reader forums or not, but it is a known sci-fi source among groupies.

I belong to two web-based reader groups:

Goodreads is an often mentioned and good international source of sci-fi readers among others. There are discussion 'groups' (in their terminology), one specifically sci-fi based is called "Sci Fi Aficionados" and has 289 members at last check. Also note that if you are an author or publisher, you can offer any number of your books as giveaways under the "Explore" tab, and request a review of your winner. Even if you give one pBook or eBook away, it will generate hundreds of applicants and give you some publicity among serious readers.

Another group I recently joined is LibraryThing. Originally formed for librarians and professional readers, it is another old, established site that functions in much the same way as Goodreads. There are both "Early Reviewers" and "Member Giveaway" sections which also function to put books in front of thousands of very serious readers in exchange for an honest review, and their "Science Fiction Fans" group has 4,559 members!

There may well be others, but I don't have time to spread out that much. Those two and MR keep me more than busy. Hope this helps!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think, EM , you are right to distinguish between customers for used books and customers for new books. Where you are wrong is insisting that sellers of new books should compete for those customers by selling at new book prices. That makes about as much sense as saying that new car dealers should compete for used car customers by offering new cars at used car prices. Economically, the math just does not add up.

Not my problem; I have plenty to read. It could potentially be a problem if authors stopped writing because it's no longer a profitable career... but I find that plenty of authors are making a living selling $3 books, perhaps because they're getting just as much money as they do from publishers who sell their books at $18.

I note that I have a budget for reading material, and I'm looking for value for my money. If publishers want a slice of that, they need to provide that value. If they aren't interested in my money, shrug; other people are.

Publishers used to claim that, for the higher price, readers were getting quality literature. That's harder to support these days, when self-published books are selling by the tens of thousands and sometimes millions (indicating that they're *enjoyed*, whether or not they match some objective level of quality), and mainstream published ebooks are often riddled with typos and formatting errors. There's no indication at all that paying an extra $10 gets a better reading experience.

Maybe they aren't as clueless about prices as you think, because there is zero evidence that they are losing customers selling at those prices.

Then why do they keep whining about how many millions of dollars they're "losing" to piracy? If those aren't lost customers, why do they care how much money they're not spending?

If the core issue is "how dare they read without paying us!" rather than "we're not making enough money!"--why aren't they screaming about used book sales?

[stonetools]

Then why do they keep whining about how many millions of dollars they're "losing" to piracy? If those aren't lost customers, why do they care how much money they're not spending?

If the core issue is "how dare they read without paying us!" rather than "we're not making enough money!"--why aren't they screaming about used book sales?

Storekeepers, too, whine about shoplifting/shrinkage-not about thrift stores. One is thievery, the other a legitimate market for used goods.

For bookstores, the core issue was "Amazon was discounting the value of the books below market price in order to drive competitors from the ebook market"-something you and most other MR people seem to pretend was not happening. Its why Google, the major publishers, and all the independent bookstores joined Apple to support agency pricing. Agaion, you seem to be in denial that MOST of the book industry backs agency pricing, and that these "overpriced" ebooks outsell by volume most of your "correctly priced" $2.99 books. Could it be that the average buyer is willing to pay for curation by the major publishers and the much greater assurance of quality? Maybe the major publishers (and authors, and independent booksellers)aren't just greedy and stupid all the time, but may actually know more about the business of pricing and selling ebooks than interested amatuers on the Internet? Could that be possible? Just sayin'.

[speakingtohe]

Prices are pretty much up to the seller and and in general the consumer doesn't have to buy. Hard to make a life or death case on the purchase of an ebook.

I hve had many people walk up to me and ask what I had paid for an item.
Bizarre response when I tell them include:

That cheap, can't be any good.

You must be rich to afford that ($40) and the guy was holding a $4 cup of coffee in his hand and wearing some pretty pricey clothes.

I'll give you five bucks for that when you told them $9.99 and then following you down the street saying come on it's used.

As you can tell, I like a bargain, but as with clothes, food, houses and cars etc. if the price is too high I do without or find an affordable alternative.

Many people even in this priveleged country (Canada) who cannot afford a permanent adress with which to get a library card.

Helen

[Freeshadow]

That cheap, can't be any good.

den't ever forget the Linux-assumption "its free it must be crap"

[wannabee]

Just as an aside - I noticed posts mentioning the price of pbooks in this thread. Spare a thought for the readers down under. Have look at the price of new pbooks down here. . . . and these are just paperbacks mind you.

[allinhi/]

Stonetools, your comparison of booksellerss to auto dealers misses tht point. Any product must be compared to alternative products for your analogy to be valid. Auto dealers compete with dealers selling different makes and certainly do compete with used vehicles. Competition for entertainment products are whatever the substitutes or alternatives are. I believe that eventually law will evolve to allow much broader fair use and resale rights for ebooks, movies, music, to distinguish between lending or reselling a personal copy and reproducing and distributing copies especially for profit.

[Freeshadow]

Originally Posted by allinhi

Stonetools, your comparison of booksellerss to auto dealers misses tht point.

'nuff said.

[Ken Maltby]

Actually I think "Stonetools" presents that aspect of the issue correctly. The point
he addressed was more to the nature of a segment of the ebook buying public that
such comparison invokes. The publishers will have to face the results of their actions.
One big result is having to make retail marketing decisions, something they have not
that much experience with. So far, it looks to me that the major players are not doing
that bad, with the pricing and ebook release of the big sellers. There may still be some
who are trying to price ebook and pbook the same, on release; or those who make for
a major delay between pbook and ebook marketing, but they are likely to come around
as the numbers change.

Luck;
Ken

[JimKal]

Originally Posted by jbcohen

My book buying rules, and these are hard rules that I will never break:

1) No books over $8, paperback or electronic doesn't matter;
2) Electronic can not cost more then the printed editions; I will never buy an electronic when it costs more then the printed one;

Don't care who wrote it or how good or bad I simply will not abandon these rules.

This is where I differ with Becca Ann - doesn't matter before or after agency pricing, favorite authors or not makes little difference, no books over $8. I am not interested in paying more for books, however I will gladly pay less and amazon allows me to do exactly that,

I do like your "rules". I can't say that I follow them exclusively as I will occasionally buy a new hard cover release and pay more but you have proposed a good general rule to follow. An addition that I find myself following is when a publisher shares the same or more for the e-version I tend to not buy either copy. I've noticed on Amazon that there are quite a few instances when the e-book costs more than the paperback.

The upside of following this"rule" is that I am exploring authors that I might not have sampled.

[mldavis2]

Might be hard to hold on to that "never" price of $8 unless you adjust for inflation. Never say "never."