Most Convincing AIs in Literature?

[TedJ]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

Pandora's Star was the first part, and I forget the book that made up part 2.

I would still consider this a completely different person, since the breath, the spirit is not bestowed simply on our memories.

The second book was Judas Unchained if I remember correctly.

How about the Takeshi Kovacs series by Richard Morgan, where faced with FTL communications but limited to sublight transportation the usual method of interstellar travel is to have your personality "needlecast" into a new body, or "sleeve" at your destination?

[Adoby]

In the book Accelerando by Charles Stross artificial intelligence and mixes of AI and downloaded Humans take over to form a "Matrisoshka brain". It seems that this is the normal evolution all over the universe. All matter in the whole solarsystem is being dismantled and converted into a vast distributed computing devise.

The last humans flee. The are aided by an AI in the form of an alien pyramid scheme crossed with a 419 scam. The pyramid scheme had to flee, because it was not as efficient as the competition that ran rings around it using "Economy 2.0" tricks, and it was about to be dismantled and recycled into something more efficient.

Free eBook edition available here: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...ndo-intro.html

Recommended reading - no connection.

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by EatingPie

I figure if I set the rules now, I can't be called a bigot in the future since -- obviously -- they'll be using my rules!
-Pie

The problems with setting the rules means that both sides have to play with them.

What if the soul isn't so much a construction of flesh and bone, but something more than that? If the mind is no more than a receiver for the soul like a radio is a receiver for a message?

Then why would an android or machine not be capable of possessing or attaining a soul?

Because it strikes me that to deny machines a soul is to deny the existence of god and if you do that, than you kind of kill off your argument that a soul exists don't you?

Seems to me as though there is no reason whatsoever that prohibits a machine from having a soul... Metal flesh, human flesh.... Really just both machines aren't they?

Whatever argument or rules you have start to break down once you examine the issues of what a soul is and how it attaches or connects to an entity.

At which point, the mechanics and materials that make us up don't matter any longer.

Just a perspective based on the rules as given.

But then I like to see Androids as being simply another form of human and should not that which is created by human to be human still be human? For that matter, what does it truly mean to be human?

Regards
David

[JSWolf]

And let us not forget Isaac Asimov's Bicentennial Man. which later became the book The Positronic Man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Positronic_Man

[EatingPie]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

The problems with setting the rules means that both sides have to play with them.

What if the soul isn't so much a construction of flesh and bone, but something more than that? If the mind is no more than a receiver for the soul like a radio is a receiver for a message?

Then why would an android or machine not be capable of possessing or attaining a soul?

Because it strikes me that to deny machines a soul is to deny the existence of god and if you do that, than you kind of kill off your argument that a soul exists don't you?

Seems to me as though there is no reason whatsoever that prohibits a machine from having a soul... Metal flesh, human flesh.... Really just both machines aren't they?

Whatever argument or rules you have start to break down once you examine the issues of what a soul is and how it attaches or connects to an entity.

At which point, the mechanics and materials that make us up don't matter any longer.

Just a perspective based on the rules as given.

But then I like to see Androids as being simply another form of human and should not that which is created by human to be human still be human? For that matter, what does it truly mean to be human?

Regards
David

I was being totally facetious, but you wrote a super good response!

I have not thorougly studied the philosophical history of the concept of "soul," so I actually do not know a lot of things about it. Here's a few things.

Animals do not have souls, though they have the ability to think, feel and communicate to some extent. Now, I make that statement not knowing if animals have souls, but the book that I derive the concept of soul from speaks of "breath" and that is only bestowed upon human beings.

I believe C.S. Lewis argued that animals can sort of "obtain" a souls through relationship with humanity. I have not read the argument, so I am only citing it as an example.

So there are a lot of possibilities.

When I raised the idea of ethics, the questions you asked are some of the very questions I was thinking about. Scientists pursue AI without considering the ethical, moral or philosophical implications. Add that tons of literature dealing with AI -- the very first, and some of the most famous -- depict massive consequences to humanity, often leading to mankind's destruction. And yet, we pursue AI unabated!

-Pie

[Namekuseijin]

The soul is a just a poetic license. Does a book have a soul? Certainly a lot of the author's essence go into it.

Moreover most authors certainly feel like some characters just come alive on their own, against the author's own will...

[Penforhire]

Well, I can argue both sides.

The soul MAY be quite a bit more than poetic license. We just don't know. I'll say there isn't much scientific evidence for one. On the other hand, a belief is not categorically wrong just because it can only be proven, today, by a leap of faith. Put me on the side that worries about the rights of future uploaded humans. I sense I have a shot at becoming one, though perhaps the next generation is most likely.

Where would a soul come from if you were cloned? Does a normal human soul come from splitting the parents' souls? Is soul-stuff a zero sum game (takes away from the parents), infinite (seems less likely), or does it come from a pool in the ether or mind of God? If God breathes a soul into every human then are we forcing God's hand when we fully clone a human ("here you go Clyde, time for soul stuffin' ")?

Are there no aliens in the soul worldview? Or do only humans get a soul? If lack-of-soul is caused by the alien religious difference then why do all humans, with different religions, get souls?

It still seems to me the best course of behavior is to assume either nobody has a soul or else everyone gets one, barring proof one way or the other. Otherwise we could end up treating aliens, clones, and/or uploads very poorly. Besides, just because animals don't have souls (according to a popular view), that doesn't entitle us to treat them badly. Of course, it does let us eat them...

[theducks]

2 books I have read that have not been mentioned:
Ryan - the Adolescence of P1
Gerrald - When Harlie was one

[kacir]

I do not know if the AI in Daemon and its sequel Freedom by Daniel Suarez is the most convincing, but it is definitely *very* impressive.

http://thedaemon.com/

Very impressive rating of 4.03 at Goodreads
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4699575-daemon
with 3,040 ratings.

I have enjoyed the book very much.

[OtterBooks]

My favorite AI is "John Henry" from The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Not really literature, though.

[Elfwreck]

Okay, I have now officially found Another Problem with ebooks.

I remember a science fiction ebook I read last year. It had a protagonist who was the last survivor of her colony planet; some plague had made everyone go crazy & kill each other. She signed on with a group studying another culture that seemed to be hit by the same plague, in which a couple of the people were one mind shared in two bodies (they'd originally been two people, who merged somehow). The whole expedition had help/interference from an AI-ish culture/entity. (Maybe nanites. Not sure if those qualify as AI.)

I've forgotten all the names. Characters, author, title, everything. I remember flashes of the book. I vaguely remember the cover, maybe. (Woman in tight-fitting leather armor-ish outfit looking out over a wilderness?) But because the title & author wasn't at the top of every page, and because I didn't see the bookcover every time I picked it up to read, I didn't have it reinforced enough to remember the details later.

It occurs to me that I've read several short stories from Smashwords that I remember vague details about, but not titles or authors.

Hmm. Maybe something for authors to remember: Might be useful to put a bit with your name & the book title at the end of the book, because someone reading on ebook isn't getting that info several times during reading. ("Thank you for reading The Endless Perfect Story by Wonderful Author," possibly with "Please return to Smashwords to rate/review" as an option for SW ebooks.)

[6charlong]

Games like World of Warcraft and all the other MMOs aren't exactly literature but they clearly are real life examples of AI interacting with people in virtual worlds not especially unlike The Matrix or the worlds created in Star Trek's holodecks. It's interesting how games like these have led people to cross-over into reality to buy and sell virtual products for the game worlds on eBay.

I don't know what that has to do with the direction AI is headed though.

[sherman]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Okay, I have now officially found Another Problem with ebooks.

I remember a science fiction ebook I read last year. It had a protagonist who was the last survivor of her colony planet; some plague had made everyone go crazy & kill each other. She signed on with a group studying another culture that seemed to be hit by the same plague, in which a couple of the people were one mind shared in two bodies (they'd originally been two people, who merged somehow). The whole expedition had help/interference from an AI-ish culture/entity. (Maybe nanites. Not sure if those qualify as AI.)

I've forgotten all the names. Characters, author, title, everything. I remember flashes of the book. I vaguely remember the cover, maybe. (Woman in tight-fitting leather armor-ish outfit looking out over a wilderness?) But because the title & author wasn't at the top of every page, and because I didn't see the bookcover every time I picked it up to read, I didn't have it reinforced enough to remember the details later.

That sounds like the Andrea Cort novels by Adam-Troy Castro. First book is Emissaries from the Dead.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by sherman

That sounds like the Andrea Cort novels by Adam-Troy Castro. First book is Emissaries from the Dead.

That's it! Thank you! I was hoping someone would recognize it.

[Xanthe]

I like Jeeves the AI butler from the Liaden Universe series, who gives comfort to the cats by letting them sleep on him in a dark corner when they are "missing" the character Val Con. It's clear that he's getting as much comfort from their actions as they are from "his".

It's obvious from his description that he is not human; two of the main characters in their younger days decided to redesign the house robot and upgrade its intelligence level. But it's also obvious that he is emotionally as much a part of the family as its living members.