Is OSX Lion buggy? - Page 4

1611mac · 08-05-2011, 11:45 AM

I completely deleted my wifi setup on my iMac and I configured it again from scratch. Been working OK since then. We'll see.

unboggling · 08-05-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1611mac

OK... Here's a possible BIG issue...

I hadn't related my issue to my new Lion install but my wifi kept dropping off the local net. I am visiting a relative and I assumed the issue was related to their wireless setup. (Though no one else loses their connection.)

When reading this post this morning it occurred to me that the drops started after I installed Lion. I did a Google search and check this out:

Lion dropping Wifi
.
.

To sum up some of those links. It's apparently related to certain but not all wireless cards. Advice to fix is to: turn Airport off, unplug router from power, wait a minute, plug router into power, startup mac, turn Airport on. Which resets wireless things and often solves the problem. And Apple's working on a fix.

1611mac · 08-05-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unboggling

To sum up some of those links. It's apparently related to certain but not all wireless cards. Advice to fix is to: turn Airport off, unplug router from power, wait a minute, plug router into power, startup mac, turn Airport on. Which resets wireless things and often solves the problem. And Apple's working on a fix.

No other device here on the net has a problem and I've done the "unplug" fix one too many times in my life. That doesn't fix the problem, I'm liable to go offline again one minute later. If I simply go to Network Diagnostics and let it "diagnose" it reports a "network reconfig" and then connects again without me doing anything.

unboggling · 08-06-2011, 12:16 AM

Huh. Well, I'm waiting before installing Lion. Over the years on the few occasions I've needed them including last week, Apple Tech Support was quick and helpful. I even paid by the hour once when I wasn't subscribed to AppleCare, and it was worth it, fixed a network problem that had been driving me crazy for months.

1611mac · 08-06-2011, 09:27 AM

My advice.... Wait and then KNOW what you are doing on your new install. I made the mistake of "just doing it." It does not install like the old systems (over the net.)

When I installed I got an error msg that there was not enough room to install "Restore" tools (it's mounts as a separate disk image). The install said I could go on and install it later. So installed without RECOVE - BIG MISTAKE. Sadly, to install from a Time Machine backup you need it and it won't install (download) by itself.

So, I had to go out and buy another external disk (I'm traveling) and download a fresh "Factory Install" on it. I then partitioned it to two drives keeping the "Factory Install" (with RECOVER image) on one partition. I then launched RECOVER on the new partition and restored my TIME MACHINE backup to the other partition on the new disk. I booted it to make sure it all worked fine.

Having a known good image of my entire working disk I then reformatted my main internal drive and installed my TimeMachine backup to it.

It took me a good long while to figure out initially that I did not have RECOVER image on my Lion system. Instructions said to boot machine holding CMD R and recover would boot. Every time I did that my normal "old" system booted up.

Took reading lots of reading forums threads to learn that my initial install did not install RECOVER.

SO, when you migrate to LION make sure you have an IMAGE of your "old" working system disk (your internal disk) and make sue you know what you are doing BEFORE you start.

I HIGHLY recommend formatting you internal drive once you have a working "backup" of your main disk and NOT simply installing LION over your current system. Then install from your EXTERNAL disk Time Machine Backup.

By the way... If you use Boot Camp it will not install under LION if your internal disk has more than ONE partition. That's another reason I had to go thru all this as I had three.

KevinH · 08-09-2011, 04:47 PM

Hi,

I upgraded to Lion and now regret it. It seems Apple in its infinite wisdom has decided to force all Apple supplied apps to autosave over the original and then layer version control on top of it. This is simply a really bad practice as it makes many many "versions" (none of which you may even want to keep) and does not allow you to easily "discard changes". Apples approach really slows down things when editing large documents, large images, etc. It takes up disk space, creates copies (sometimes complete) of files that you can't easily delete by deleting the original, can force editing changes down to files on some network storage devices, locks some files and will not let you edit them after two weeks without using a password, etc.

Autosaving should only ever be done to temporary files and versions should only ever be made when a user indicates this is something they actually want to save.

In addition, Lion seems to freak out on some MacBook Pros with specific graphic card settings, doesn't work with some Network Addressable Storage (NAS) devices, seems to be dropping wifi connections left and right for some users, requires an update to the latest Kindle for Mac to work at all, breaks the Sony Reader device driver kernel extension, hides your Library folder (including all preference files and mail files), has broken Python pieces (Python Launcher and IDLE are both broken), removes your Java implementation, and really goes out of way to try and force you to change your current work flows to fit their idea of how you should work on your own computer.

So I highly recommend waiting at least until Apple adds in settings to turn off the autosave/versioning features, and fixes some of its bugs with dropping wifi, screen graphics on MacBooks, etc.

For more details, see many of the discussions about Lion and its problems at the discussions.apple.com support forums.

unboggling · 08-09-2011, 08:06 PM

Speaking of graphic card settings, in Snow Leopard 10.6.8 on a MacBookPro17, there is an on-off switch in Energy Saver Prefs for "Automatic graphics switching". With it on, I've had some trouble waking from sleep. With it off, no problems. I haven't bothered tracking it down or trying to fix it because I almost never run solely from battery so I just leave it off. Regarding Lion problems, I'm glad I decided to wait. I hate waiting…. I'm waiting. I'm still waiting….

Edit. The autosaving/version thing would be a huge issue to me if it's not possible to turn it off.

FlorenceArt · 08-10-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

Hi,

I upgraded to Lion and now regret it. It seems Apple in its infinite wisdom has decided to force all Apple supplied apps to autosave over the original and then layer version control on top of it. This is simply a really bad practice as it makes many many "versions" (none of which you may even want to keep) and does not allow you to easily "discard changes". Apples approach really slows down things when editing large documents, large images, etc. It takes up disk space, creates copies (sometimes complete) of files that you can't easily delete by deleting the original, can force editing changes down to files on some network storage devices, locks some files and will not let you edit them after two weeks without using a password, etc.

Autosaving should only ever be done to temporary files and versions should only ever be made when a user indicates this is something they actually want to save.

In addition, Lion seems to freak out on some MacBook Pros with specific graphic card settings, doesn't work with some Network Addressable Storage (NAS) devices, seems to be dropping wifi connections left and right for some users, requires an update to the latest Kindle for Mac to work at all, breaks the Sony Reader device driver kernel extension, hides your Library folder (including all preference files and mail files), has broken Python pieces (Python Launcher and IDLE are both broken), removes your Java implementation, and really goes out of way to try and force you to change your current work flows to fit their idea of how you should work on your own computer.

So I highly recommend waiting at least until Apple adds in settings to turn off the autosave/versioning features, and fixes some of its bugs with dropping wifi, screen graphics on MacBooks, etc.

For more details, see many of the discussions about Lion and its problems at the discussions.apple.com support forums.

Thank you for the info. I had already decided that Lion is a major upgrade, and therefore it's best to wait at least a few weeks or months before installing it. Plus, I don't like having to buy Snow Leopard THEN Lion. I may never upgrade at all on my current MacBook Pro.

I'm also a bit worried about the convergence between Mac OS and IOS. The Mac app store is a great idea, but what if Mac OS is locked in the future to prevent buying any app outside of that store? If there is a convergence, it should go the way of making IOS more open, not locking up Mac OS. I'm not sure that is the way things are going at the moment, but maybe I'm just being paranoid.

unboggling · 08-10-2011, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

If there is a convergence, it should go the way of making IOS more open, not locking up Mac OS. I'm not sure that is the way things are going at the moment, but maybe I'm just being paranoid.

If you're being paranoid, your paranoia just gave my paranoia a big kick in butt. I don't like the way mobile industry buys into the lock-customer-in idea, and if that gets stronger on all OS platforms…. I understand why they do it, but I too would rather see things go the other way toward interoperability, cross-vendor support as opposed to one-vendor lock-in.

1611mac · 08-10-2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

I'm also a bit worried about the convergence between Mac OS and IOS.

I thought I was the only one worried about this! The new mail (in Lion) looks more like iOS mail. One of the first things I did was switch mail prefs to "classic look."

Launchpad is obviously intended to represent the iOS app screens. I have yet to find a good use for launchpad in Lion.

KevinH · 08-10-2011, 09:39 AM

Hi,

BTW: For Mac OS X 10.5 users, Lion completely drops support for Rossetta so no PPC apps will work anymore on Intel Macs. So if you have any old PPC apps you still use (Office 2004 anyone?, old games, etc) they will simply stop working.

And what is probably worse, Apple has dropped support for building Mac OS X 10.5 programs from its Lion Developer Tools (Xcode 4.1) so many smaller developer shops or orgs who have only one build machine will simply have to choose between adding a Mac running 10.5 or 10.6 to use as a Developer build platform for just 10.5 users or completely dropping support for Mac OS X 10.5 when they convert to Lion.

This has recently hit Sigil as it has recently dropped support for Mac OS X 10.5. I expect many of the other open source developers/programs to do the same.

So your safe bet for Mac OS X 10.5 users is to upgrade to Mac OS X 10.6 now and stay there permanently or wait and then upgrade to Lion when it is finally stable.

My 2 cents,

KevinH

FlorenceArt · 08-10-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

BTW: For Mac OS X 10.5 users, Lion completely drops support for Rossetta so no PPC apps will work anymore on Intel Macs. So if you have any old PPC apps you still use (Office 2004 anyone?, old games, etc) they will simply stop working.

Photoshop CS in my case, but it has given me many years of use, I don't mind buying a more recent version. Some of the new image correction tools seem fascinating, even though I probably won't use them that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

And what is probably worse, Apple has dropped support for building Mac OS X 10.5 programs from its Lion Developer Tools (Xcode 4.1) so many smaller developer shops or orgs who have only one build machine will simply have to choose between adding a Mac running 10.5 or 10.6 to use as a Developer build platform for just 10.5 users or completely dropping support for Mac OS X 10.5 when they convert to Lion.

This has recently hit Sigil as it has recently dropped support for Mac OS X 10.5. I expect many of the other open source developers/programs to do the same.

So your safe bet for Mac OS X 10.5 users is to upgrade to Mac OS X 10.6 now and stay there permanently or wait and then upgrade to Lion when it is finally stable.

This I didn't know! You're right, maybe I should upgrade to Snow Leopard now.

FlorenceArt · 08-14-2011, 02:13 PM

I just had my first warning, as I downloaded and installed the Evernote app on my Mac, it gave me a warning that the app will no longer be supported for my system in the future.

That scared me, so I went online and found (finally) a store that still stocks Snow Leopard DVDs and ordered it. I'm just slightly worried because the site said that it's available "within 2 weeks", and I hope that's not another way of saying "we don't have it in stock, so we'll order it from Apple and... oops, sorry, that product doesn't exist any more!".

It's still in the Apple store, so I have that option if all else fails, but I try to avoid it because they use DHL and they suck at delivering to individuals (as opposed to companies).

1611mac · 08-14-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

I just had my first warning, as I donwloaded and installed the Evernote app on my Mac, it gave me a warning that the app will no longer be supported for my system in the future.

Here's the "official" notes as provided in the Evernotes upgrade info:

Quote:

A note to OS X 10.5 users: This is the final Evernote for Mac release that will support OS X 10.5. This version will continue to work on OS X 10.5, but there will be no future feature updates. To continue receiving the latest Evernote features and functionality, we recommend upgrading to the latest Apple operating system.

KevinH · 08-17-2011, 11:11 AM

Hi,

FWIW, Apple has released Mac OS X 10.7.1 (update) via the Software Updates menu (not the App Store). This seems to fix many of the wifi and black screen issues according to some posts I have read. It unfortunately does not add in a setting to disable the autosave/versions stuff. I am not sure they ever will.

So I have simply reverted to replacing these forced autosave apps with older versions from Snow Leopard or other pieces of software that do not force you to use autosave/versions. These include, older versions of iWork (9.0.5), TextEdit.app from Snow Leopard or TextWrangler (free from Bare Bones/BBEdit), and I have replaced Preview.app with Adobe Reader for PDFs and "Just Looking.app" for images.

With these changes, I don't have to worry about autosave/versions until other application developers change their apps to use it. Some like GraphicConverter have added a preference setting to turn off autosave/versioning (thank you!)

So hopefully 10.7.1 fixes many of the other bugs people have reported.

My 2 cents,

KevinH

08-06-2011, 09:27 AM	#50
1611mac eWanderer Posts: 523 Karma: 1441998 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NC, USA Device: iMac,iPad3,iPhone5-Kindle Fire,Touch,PaperWhite	My advice.... Wait and then KNOW what you are doing on your new install. I made the mistake of "just doing it." It does not install like the old systems (over the net.) When I installed I got an error msg that there was not enough room to install "Restore" tools (it's mounts as a separate disk image). The install said I could go on and install it later. So installed without RECOVE - BIG MISTAKE. Sadly, to install from a Time Machine backup you need it and it won't install (download) by itself. So, I had to go out and buy another external disk (I'm traveling) and download a fresh "Factory Install" on it. I then partitioned it to two drives keeping the "Factory Install" (with RECOVER image) on one partition. I then launched RECOVER on the new partition and restored my TIME MACHINE backup to the other partition on the new disk. I booted it to make sure it all worked fine. Having a known good image of my entire working disk I then reformatted my main internal drive and installed my TimeMachine backup to it. It took me a good long while to figure out initially that I did not have RECOVER image on my Lion system. Instructions said to boot machine holding CMD R and recover would boot. Every time I did that my normal "old" system booted up. Took reading lots of reading forums threads to learn that my initial install did not install RECOVER. SO, when you migrate to LION make sure you have an IMAGE of your "old" working system disk (your internal disk) and make sue you know what you are doing BEFORE you start. I HIGHLY recommend formatting you internal drive once you have a working "backup" of your main disk and NOT simply installing LION over your current system. Then install from your EXTERNAL disk Time Machine Backup. By the way... If you use Boot Camp it will not install under LION if your internal disk has more than ONE partition. That's another reason I had to go thru all this as I had three. Last edited by 1611mac; 08-06-2011 at 09:30 AM.

08-09-2011, 08:06 PM	#52
unboggling Wizard Posts: 1,065 Karma: 858115 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: Kobo Clara, Kindle Paperwhite 10	Speaking of graphic card settings, in Snow Leopard 10.6.8 on a MacBookPro17, there is an on-off switch in Energy Saver Prefs for "Automatic graphics switching". With it on, I've had some trouble waking from sleep. With it off, no problems. I haven't bothered tracking it down or trying to fix it because I almost never run solely from battery so I just leave it off. Regarding Lion problems, I'm glad I decided to wait. I hate waiting…. I'm waiting. I'm still waiting…. Edit. The autosaving/version thing would be a huge issue to me if it's not possible to turn it off. Last edited by unboggling; 08-10-2011 at 03:58 AM.

08-10-2011, 09:39 AM	#56
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 8,616 Karma: 5703586 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	Hi, BTW: For Mac OS X 10.5 users, Lion completely drops support for Rossetta so no PPC apps will work anymore on Intel Macs. So if you have any old PPC apps you still use (Office 2004 anyone?, old games, etc) they will simply stop working. And what is probably worse, Apple has dropped support for building Mac OS X 10.5 programs from its Lion Developer Tools (Xcode 4.1) so many smaller developer shops or orgs who have only one build machine will simply have to choose between adding a Mac running 10.5 or 10.6 to use as a Developer build platform for just 10.5 users or completely dropping support for Mac OS X 10.5 when they convert to Lion. This has recently hit Sigil as it has recently dropped support for Mac OS X 10.5. I expect many of the other open source developers/programs to do the same. So your safe bet for Mac OS X 10.5 users is to upgrade to Mac OS X 10.6 now and stay there permanently or wait and then upgrade to Lion when it is finally stable. My 2 cents, KevinH Last edited by KevinH; 08-10-2011 at 09:51 AM. Reason: fix typos

08-14-2011, 02:13 PM	#58
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	I just had my first warning, as I downloaded and installed the Evernote app on my Mac, it gave me a warning that the app will no longer be supported for my system in the future. That scared me, so I went online and found (finally) a store that still stocks Snow Leopard DVDs and ordered it. I'm just slightly worried because the site said that it's available "within 2 weeks", and I hope that's not another way of saying "we don't have it in stock, so we'll order it from Apple and... oops, sorry, that product doesn't exist any more!". It's still in the Apple store, so I have that option if all else fails, but I try to avoid it because they use DHL and they suck at delivering to individuals (as opposed to companies). Last edited by FlorenceArt; 08-18-2011 at 05:05 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
MyLibrary 0.14 = buggy	jhempel24	Barnes & Noble NOOK	2	01-30-2011 07:47 AM
Buggy paging in Mobipocket on Windows Mobile	starrigger	Reading and Management	3	01-01-2010 04:53 PM
Bookmarking too much in a document leads to buggy behavior	cmhsieh54	iRex	0	10-09-2009 02:39 PM
jetBook LED Sucks and is Buggy	galavanter	Ectaco jetBook	2	04-24-2009 05:03 PM
New Cybook - Buggy as hell	AndyCapon	Bookeen	40	05-27-2008 01:40 AM

08-05-2011, 11:45 AM	#46
1611mac eWanderer Posts: 523 Karma: 1441998 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NC, USA Device: iMac,iPad3,iPhone5-Kindle Fire,Touch,PaperWhite	I completely deleted my wifi setup on my iMac and I configured it again from scratch. Been working OK since then. We'll see.

08-06-2011, 12:16 AM	#49
unboggling Wizard Posts: 1,065 Karma: 858115 Join Date: Jan 2011 Device: Kobo Clara, Kindle Paperwhite 10	Huh. Well, I'm waiting before installing Lion. Over the years on the few occasions I've needed them including last week, Apple Tech Support was quick and helpful. I even paid by the hour once when I wasn't subscribed to AppleCare, and it was worth it, fixed a network problem that had been driving me crazy for months.

08-09-2011, 04:47 PM	#51
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 8,616 Karma: 5703586 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	Hi, I upgraded to Lion and now regret it. It seems Apple in its infinite wisdom has decided to force all Apple supplied apps to autosave over the original and then layer version control on top of it. This is simply a really bad practice as it makes many many "versions" (none of which you may even want to keep) and does not allow you to easily "discard changes". Apples approach really slows down things when editing large documents, large images, etc. It takes up disk space, creates copies (sometimes complete) of files that you can't easily delete by deleting the original, can force editing changes down to files on some network storage devices, locks some files and will not let you edit them after two weeks without using a password, etc. Autosaving should only ever be done to temporary files and versions should only ever be made when a user indicates this is something they actually want to save. In addition, Lion seems to freak out on some MacBook Pros with specific graphic card settings, doesn't work with some Network Addressable Storage (NAS) devices, seems to be dropping wifi connections left and right for some users, requires an update to the latest Kindle for Mac to work at all, breaks the Sony Reader device driver kernel extension, hides your Library folder (including all preference files and mail files), has broken Python pieces (Python Launcher and IDLE are both broken), removes your Java implementation, and really goes out of way to try and force you to change your current work flows to fit their idea of how you should work on your own computer. So I highly recommend waiting at least until Apple adds in settings to turn off the autosave/versioning features, and fixes some of its bugs with dropping wifi, screen graphics on MacBooks, etc. For more details, see many of the discussions about Lion and its problems at the discussions.apple.com support forums.

08-17-2011, 11:11 AM	#60
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 8,616 Karma: 5703586 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	Hi, FWIW, Apple has released Mac OS X 10.7.1 (update) via the Software Updates menu (not the App Store). This seems to fix many of the wifi and black screen issues according to some posts I have read. It unfortunately does not add in a setting to disable the autosave/versions stuff. I am not sure they ever will. So I have simply reverted to replacing these forced autosave apps with older versions from Snow Leopard or other pieces of software that do not force you to use autosave/versions. These include, older versions of iWork (9.0.5), TextEdit.app from Snow Leopard or TextWrangler (free from Bare Bones/BBEdit), and I have replaced Preview.app with Adobe Reader for PDFs and "Just Looking.app" for images. With these changes, I don't have to worry about autosave/versions until other application developers change their apps to use it. Some like GraphicConverter have added a preference setting to turn off autosave/versioning (thank you!) So hopefully 10.7.1 fixes many of the other bugs people have reported. My 2 cents, KevinH

Advert

Advert