Amazon removing gay ebooks from their catalog again

[DiapDealer]

but I don't put a lot of stock in the idea that Amazon can discriminate if they want to.

It all kind of hinges on your definition of discrimination, doesn't it? As far as I can tell; gay, hetero, red, yellow, black and white are all free to purchase anything that Amazon sells.

Nobody has to like it, but there is no valid argument that they're not within their rights to pick and choose what they sell. They could decide to strictly sell paranormal, heterosexual romance and there would be nothing that anybody could do besides "not shop there anymore."

Argue whether they "should" till the cows come home... but "can" has long ago been put to bed, tucked in, and kissed lovingly on the forehead.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by crich70

Actually that has happened in the past. At one time the idea of "seperate but equal" was a common thing. Black people had separate restaurants, movie theaters, even restrooms and water fountains. The government had to step in to put an end to it. That was just a bit before my time as I was born at the end of 1970 and the civil unrest that saw such things abolished occurred in the 1960's.

The difference is that there were laws, the Jim Crow laws, that established seperate but equal. Those laws were unconstitutional. It has further been decided and writen into law that it is a violation of a persons civil rights to deny them service based on race, creed, religion, or sexual orientation.

These ebooks can be published and sold for the Kindle at a different book store. They can be sold as EPubs at different book stores. There is no law preventing them from being written and sold. Amazon is not making this decision based on a law that was passed. Amazon has decided it does not want to sell certain type of ebooks. That is Amazons right as a privatly held business.

A brick and mortar store can decide to sell the paper copy of the book. Just like a magazine store can decide to sell pornographic magazine. Just like a Comic Book store can choose to sell this type of Manga.

It might be a bad business decision to not sell the books in question but it is not illegal or unconstitutional for Amazon to decide not to sell the books in question.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by ps249

Ands who are you? The gay godfather? Are you the new gay superhero?

Yes-- I kinda hate to out him, but the poster that you quote is, indeed, Jean-Paul Beaubier.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Forgive the question, but is there any evidence that ONLY gay eBooks have been removed?

In the recent past, Amazon gave the boot to a book that purported to be a guide to pedophilia (which produced a huge media fuss), a fiction book that included hetero pedophilia, several (but not all) books by an author whose work included fictional depictions of male homosexual rape, and now a handful of manga.

Amazon is well within its rights to pull pretty much any content at any time. People are also entitled to protest the pulling. However, specifically referring to it as either discriminatory or censorious is incorrect -- especially given how much of that kind of content is available and in no apparent danger of being pulled. Some people are just way too sensitive for their own (political) good.

[ProfCrash]

In this case, some people collect a series of books and are upset that some of those books have been pulled which screws up the series.

And it happens to be a series that included some minor gay sex.

Given that 18 year old kids have been sent to jail in the US for having sex with their 16 year old significant other (The parents didn't like the older kid and managed to get them charged with satatory rape) is it a surprise that there are people in the US who will protest any type of work that depicts underage kids having sex. Gay sex is just an added button to push. I have no idea if their were drawings of the act but the fact that it is Manga will further inflame the issue because their might be pictures of gay, underage, teenage sex.

Amazon has a track record of pulling anything that could be seen as containing pedophilia. This is not new.

[crich70]

I'm not arguing that Amazon doesn't have the right to pull things that are either illegal or have the appearance of being so, I'm just saying that when you pull this title but leave that one you should expect scrutiny from others. Should content that goes into detail about how to commit a crime be published? No, because that would be irresponsible and could lead to legal problems for those who sold it, but pulling things off the shelves without making it clear what and why leads to others wondering where the line will be drawn. From what I remember of previous topics relating to this Amazon has a habit of not making it clear why they pull some but not others. That sends a bad message (IMO) because even if they aren't legally required to explain themselves morally they should, because free speech and censorship cannot co-exist with each other.

[ProfCrash]

They are not violating free speech and they are not censoring anyone. They are chosing to not sell certain books with certain content. They are allowed to do that. My grocery store choses not to sell certain foods, they are not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling the yogurt smoothie that I like. Amazon is not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling a specific book or even a specific genre of books.

Amazon is a private company, they do not have to explain why they do what they do to anyone other then their investors.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

They are not violating free speech and they are not censoring anyone. They are chosing to not sell certain books with certain content. They are allowed to do that. My grocery store choses not to sell certain foods, they are not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling the yogurt smoothie that I like. Amazon is not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling a specific book or even a specific genre of books.

Amazon is a private company, they do not have to explain why they do what they do to anyone other then their investors.

Exactly right. I don't agree with it's decision in this particular case (if it's even a decision or just a coincidence), but it's perfectly free to do whatever it wishes.

Originally Posted by ps249

Ands who are you? The gay godfather? Are you the new gay superhero?

Ares you asking like it's a bad thing? Can you imagine how fantastic the costume of a gay superhero would be??

[queentess]

Originally Posted by ps249

Ands who are you? The gay godfather? Are you the new gay superhero?

Ohhhhhh, nevermind. I thought you were poking fun. Apparently you're just an idiot...

Originally Posted by ps249

since when is NPR a legit media outlet? The house of representatives voted to defund that orginazation because of their political bias

[RainingLemur]

Originally Posted by queentess

Are you asking like it's a bad thing? Can you imagine how fantastic the costume of a gay superhero would be??

After giving it a lot of thought... (4 seconds, to be precise, that's all my attention span allows for)

Spoiler:

[queentess]

Originally Posted by RainingLemur

After giving it a lot of thought... (4 seconds, to be precise, that's all my attention span allows for)

Spoiler:

I love it!

[crich70]

I didn't say they were doing something illegal just that by being silent about why they are doing x they give the appearance of doing something that can be construed to be wrong. And while they may not be directly censoring anyone they can set an example for others to follow that could lead to actual censorship. One thing can lead to another and thence to another until what was once unthinkable becomes commonplace. Hence the slippery slope situation.

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

They are not violating free speech and they are not censoring anyone. They are chosing to not sell certain books with certain content. They are allowed to do that. My grocery store choses not to sell certain foods, they are not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling the yogurt smoothie that I like. Amazon is not violating any law or anyones rights by not selling a specific book or even a specific genre of books.

Amazon is a private company, they do not have to explain why they do what they do to anyone other then their investors.

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by bashfulbanshee

While I agree to some extent, Amazon is sending a message about what content isn't welcome, which doesn't make me a very happy customer.

Silly analogy, but bear with me. If a store claimed to sell all of the pastry from all over the world, but for some reason removed everything from Asia even though they have the room for it, and they'd go out of their way to keep their pastry Asian-free... even anything just Asian-inspired, I'd ask, what's the deal? What do you have against the delicious coconut buns and green tea sponge cakes? What set off the store owner? Being Asian, I might even feel unwelcome in the store even if I was going in for a scone, just because for some reason, everything associated with anything Asian is purposefully eliminated!

It would be one story if the store never stocked any Asian pastry to begin with. But I would be flustered to see if for some reason, all the other sponge cakes are still sitting there but the green tea one is gone! It doesn't make me feel comfortable.

Mmmmmmmm pasties.....I mean pastries, pastries!

[cfrizz]

hardly! I'm simply a straight woman who doesn't think that people like YOU should be dictating to the rest of us what is porn, and should not sold, read, or be published. I'm not interested in it myself therefore, I simply don't buy it. Hell until this thread, I didn't even know what it was & had to Google it.

Be very care ps249, not only is your ignorance showing but so is your bigotry against other human beings!

I don't care who anyone is or how they choose to live their lives. So long as they are decent human beings & are not shoving their ways down my or anyone elses throat, they are ok in my book.

And Amazon has the right to sell or not sell anything they want. I'm sure there are other stores that sell it, and most likely the DN most certainly has it for free!

BTW Worldwalker, nice post!

Originally Posted by ps249

Ands who are you? The gay godfather? Are you the new gay superhero?

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by queentess

Ohhhhhh, nevermind. I thought you were poking fun. Apparently you're just an idiot...

*breath*

Originally Posted by cfrizz

hardly! I'm simply a staight woman who doesn't think that people like YOU should be dictating to the rest of us what is porn, and should not sold, read, or be published. I'm not interested in it myself therefore, I simply don't buy it. Hell until this thread, I didn't even know what it was & had to Google it.

Be very care ps249, not only is your ignorance showing but so is your bigotry against other human beings!

I don't care who anyone is or how they choose to live their lives. So long as they are decent human beings & are not shoving their ways down my or anyone elses throat, they are ok in my book.

And Amazon has the right to sell or not sell anything they want. I'm sure there are other stores that sell it, and most likely the DN most certainly has it for free!