Price Fluctuations Based On Demand

[Fayth]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

For all intents and purposes, ideas are copyrighted. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

You cannot convince me that the words in a book do not convey an idea into my mind because I am telling you that they do. So you wish to copyright the words and strangle the idea before it has a chance to reach my mind? I must tell you that this is unacceptable behavior for any free society to behave in and thus any society with copyright systems in place is NOT FREE.

Why would any writer want to spend countless hours writing books if they could not make a living off of it? Asking them to do so would be the same as asking you to do whatever job that you do for free. Would you find that fair?

Thankfully, governments in most societies do not have the same sense of entitlement as you do, because I would hate to see a time when we barely have any new and interesting books because no one is willing to write them.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Fayth

Why would any writer want to spend countless hours writing books if they could not make a living off of it? Asking them to do so would be the same as asking you to do whatever job that you do for free. Would you find that fair?

Most authors do not make a living from writing but they still write books. So you just have to ask them why they do it. Some will answer that they do it because the like to write and have a story to tell. Others will give a different answer.

[Fayth]

Still, I find it unrealistic to believe that we would still have a vast amount of good writers if they had no profit from it.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Fayth

Still, I find it unrealistic to believe that we would still have a vast amount of good writers if they had no profit from it.

What is good? And what is profit?

I expect all ebook authors to be supported by donations within ten years, give or take a decade. It makes sense, the digital just has too much potential for society to restrict with antiquated copyright laws.

Also, with an infinite supply does the law of supply and demand still hold? The answer is probably no of course.

[Fayth]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

What is good? And what is profit?

I expect all ebook authors to be supported by donations within ten years, give or take a decade. It makes sense, the digital just has too much potential for society to restrict with antiquated copyright laws.

Also, with an infinite supply does the law of supply and demand still hold? The answer is probably no of course.

And you think we will still have the same number of authors and books when they are solely supported by donations? Highly doubtful.

Would you donate?

[Dumas]

Originally Posted by Fayth

And you think we will still have the same number of authors and books when they are solely supported by donations? Highly doubtful.

Would you donate?

You mean "good" authors and "good" books, right?

I think by "donation", Giggleton is talking about an ever strengthening author-reader relationship and the $'s that will be exchanged as a result of that relationship as opposed to the current author-publisher-reader relationship and business as we now know it.

I don't really see the quantity or quality of literature changing. I do see who gets the $'s changing.

Take a peek at the music recording industry for a glimpse at how this is changing there. It is similar in that fans and artists have been able to develop closer relationships without the traditional labels. Music is still being made, fans are still enjoying it, and the labels are fighting it.

[HansTWN]

Musicians make money on concerts and endorsements. Would you pay 150 bucks to hear an author read from his books?

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Fayth

And you think we will still have the same number of authors and books when they are solely supported by donations? Highly doubtful.

Actually I expect the number of authors and books to increase dramatically/exponentially. Perhaps not so much English language books, but books nonetheless.

This increase in book quantity is going to occur with or without an end of copyright. I think it would occur faster if copyright was done away with, more people reading, more people thinking about writing.

[Dumas]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Musicians make money on concerts and endorsements. Would you pay 150 bucks to hear an author read from his books?

You are correct to point out that musicians in general make money on concerts and endorsements among other things. If they didn't, they wouldn't be making much of anything, now would they? Making money off a recording contract is the exception, not the rule, or didn't you know that?

When I first considered your question as it applies to the author I most enjoy, it occurred to me that this wouldn't be possible because, 1) The author is dead, and 2) I have a very limited comprehension of their native language.

However, I have paid for and attended an author lead discussion, not a reading. I think the tickets were like $5-10 and the author would sign up to two books (that you purchased at the event at the cover price) which I did as gifts for family. This seemed reasonable to me.

As for paying $150 to hear an author or concert, that's just not me. A fool and their money are soon parted, and if you fall into that category, that's fine. Enjoy your reading or concert.

However, that wasn't really the point of my post or the purpose of the illustration. My understanding of Fayth's assertion was that the quality and quantity of literature was dependent on the status quo's business model. I don't believe that to be the case. That doesn't seem to have been the case for music.

I think that in general, while the recording industry has declined, the music industry has grown. This is consistent with where Giggleton sees things going in the publishing industry. I agree.

[HansTWN]

The music industry has grown because they have those mentioned sources of revenue. And I mentioned such a high figure ($150), since $10 to $15 each from a very small audience won't help much. Authors don't have the same options musicians have. So the only alternatives to charging for books would be advertising or state sponsorship. Neither would be any better than just paying for what we want.

What will the future bring? My money is on advertising.

[J. Strnad]

In a sense, we are already buying ebooks on a "donation" basis.

I've used before the public radio analogy. Anyone can listen for free, so why does anyone donate? Because a certain percentage of people recognize that without support, the programs they like go away.

My book is DRM-free. Theoretically, a single copy sold can become a million or a hundred million ebooks overnight given away free to family and friends in a never-ending spiral (until everyone has a copy).

Yet, my sales continue to go up every month. Why? Because word of mouth is good and there are many, many people out there who do "donate" to my efforts.

I don't currently make a living from writing, but I do supplement my day-job income with it and plan to supplement my retirement income with writing, as long as I can make something reasonable from it. Otherwise, I'll take these fun ideas I have and just sit on the front porch and think about them and entertain myself alone.

But I believe that if you have good ideas and can write decently, enough people are out there to support you. You just have to find them.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

My book is DRM-free. Theoretically, a single copy sold can become a million or a hundred million ebooks overnight given away free to family and friends in a never-ending spiral (until everyone has a copy).

But I believe that if you have good ideas and can write decently, enough people are out there to support you. You just have to find them.

If your first case came true, and you included a little reminder at the front of your book, and a simple paypal donation link, what do you think would happen?

Getting your book into the hands of a million people is the first problem though, that's one for marketing I suppose.

Basically there's an infinite number of books and an infinite number of readers, statistically insignificant chance that what you write will be of interest to anyone, the fact that books are of interest to some is interesting.

Also, this guy thinks people are going to want to pay 10,000 for the privilege of dining with their favorite author,

http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/gfrangello/2011/04/new-directions-in-publishing-an-interview-with-richard-nash/

I suppose there only needs to be one or two people that need to shell out the 10 large and then the rest of us will be able to download the ebooks free. This is of course only for the most popular of the popular authors, meaning not independent, so it is basically irrelevant in my mind.

[Dumas]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

The music industry as grown because they have those mentioned sources of revenue.

So you think the music industry has grown (and offset lost recording revenues) because artists perform live? They've been doing that since before recorded music/wax cylinders (the advent of which it was claimed would starve artists accustomed to making a living from performances.) You're going to have to do better than that.

Remember, one of the recording industry's positions on digital music and distribution is that the quality and quantity of acts is going to decrease (a similar position proposed earlier in this discussion as it relates to authors and eBooks.) This doesn't seem to have been the case and I suggest a greater number of acts and their accessibility to a much larger market is what has resulted in the industry's growth.

I think eBooks will see similar growth as well for current and future authors. Don't forget the roughly 5M out-of-print and/or orphaned US works that Google has already scanned as well that will most likely eventually become available. This is one area where the music/book industry experiences diverge. As far as I know, the music industry hasn't tried to capitalize on its back catalog and has apparently actively prevented artists from recovering the copyright to their own material so they could re-release their own out-of-print works.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

And I mentioned such a high figure ($150), since $10 to $15 each from a very small audience won't help much.

RRRRight ... tell that to all the bands doing local gigs, and ask them what kind of an audience they think they could draw if they were charging $150 at the door. And isn't attracting an audience/readership really what's most important? Without either you've got bubkes.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Authors don't have the same options musicians have. So the only alternatives to charging for books would be advertising or state sponsorship. Neither would be any better than just paying for what we want.

I think you're off track here. We were discussing business model choices (author-reader or author-publisher-reader) and whether a change in model would result in an increase or decrease in quality and quantity of content. I don't see where anyone suggested people would stop paying for books, just who and how they would be paid for.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

What will the future bring? My money is on advertising.

Okay. So what does that look like: author-advertiser-reader, author-publisher-advertiser-reader, or what exactly? Why and how do you think this works?

[Dumas]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

In a sense, we are already buying ebooks on a "donation" basis.

I've used before the public radio analogy. Anyone can listen for free, so why does anyone donate? Because a certain percentage of people recognize that without support, the programs they like go away.

I agree and think as far as public radio goes, it's more than that. The pledge drives usually have various "gifts" based on the donation amount related to the program airing at that particular time. NPR (in the US) does a really good job of communicating value, and the people that donate (myself included) do so because they like the programming (a positive), not necessarily because it might go away (a negative). Sometimes the amount they donate is influenced by the "gift" offered.

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

My book is DRM-free. Theoretically, a single copy sold can become a million or a hundred million ebooks overnight given away free to family and friends in a never-ending spiral (until everyone has a copy).

Yet, my sales continue to go up every month. Why? Because word of mouth is good and there are many, many people out there who do "donate" to my efforts.

So you've made your book easy to use/read and people like your work enough to recommend it to others. Sounds like a home run.

Have you experimented with different pricing levels? If so, what were the results?

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

But I believe that if you have good ideas and can write decently, enough people are out there to support you. You just have to find them.

I agree, but think its more a matter of readers finding you. Continuing to build your readership and producing quality work is a recipe for success.

And you need a donate button(s) as Giggleton suggested. Maybe you'll get some ideas for different donation levels the next time you listen to a pledge drive. I think one cool donation level could be where you incorporate donor(s) into your short stories set in your universe. I think for a fan of the genre, that would be way better than dining with an author (but you could offer that as well.)

[J. Strnad]

Have you experimented with different pricing levels? If so, what were the results?

I started out around $4.99 or $5.99, I don't really remember. I finally cut the price to $2.99, the minimum for Amazon's 70% royalty, and a low enough price that anyone who's interested should be able to afford it. I don't know what the effect has been on sales. Can't really say without a control group of some kind. But I feel good about where it is now. I'm not anticipating any further price reductions.