Kindle adds Page Numbers (and more)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ChrisChillin

examiner would have to acquire both a Kindle and the Kindle edition of the book to easily follow the citation.

Uh, not that I care much about locations or hard coded pages myself, (or Kindle vs the universe, for that matter) but Kindle ebooks can be read on free apps on pretty much anything. All you need at minimum, is a browser. (And I'm pretty sure more libraries offer PCs these days.)

And Goto Location works on all the ones I've seen.
So they have to gain access to the ebook. Period.
Non-trivial, of course.
But hardly a bank-breaking proposition.

Carry on with the firefight, gentlefolk.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by ChrisChillin

That would be okay for academic work if access to Kindles was fairly universal; i.e., if all my dissertation examiners either owned one or could go to their university library and find that a) the library had Kindles to rent and b) the Kindles are loaded with the sources I cited.

Sure, although I would also add that a reasonably fast search function may obviate the need for page numbers.

Heck, at some point you may even be able to include an annotated digital version of the texts you cite as appendixes to your thesis....

Originally Posted by ChrisChillin

If I cite a particular edition of a book that has had several releases, the examiner could go between libraries until he or she finds the edition I cited.

Yeah, that sounds like fun.

While I concur that "it's not there yet," IMO it's a matter of time before the economics of printing and buying paper versions stops working for colleges and universities.

I don't know if you can create one "location index" that would harmonize across the existing file formats. If you can, that will reduce the complexities significantly.

Originally Posted by ChrisChillin

If I cite a Kindle edition, under the current locations-only structure the examiner would have to acquire both a Kindle and the Kindle edition of the book to easily follow the citation.

Actually, the examiner would have to acquire the title somehow, but not necessarily the device. Kindle software is available for multiple devices, including iOS, Android OS, Windows and Mac. eInk devices are also likely to be dirt cheap in a year or two.

The "acquisition" part is also likely to improve with digital, especially for disciplines where copies of the cited book are rare and/or in bad condition. For example, your examiners might have a difficult time getting enough paper copies of Gottfried Martin's Immanuel Kant: Ontologie und Wissenschaftstheorie in the right time frame, but an unlimited number of readers can access the Google Books version instantly.

And obviously ebooks can drastically cut research time. You'd get immediate access, rather than wait for an inter-library loan or travel to view a manuscript.

Originally Posted by ChrisChillin

I'm not convinced. Not everyone is going to have access to the digital edition. Not everyone will want the digital edition. You have to ensure coherence between the physical and the digital versions of the book for ebooks to work in academic settings.

I agree... but again, only in the short-term.

Although I expect paper to persist, I'm not sure how things will play out for academia. The print runs are shorter, and it's possible (though I'm not sure) that paper costs are higher than with general interest books.

And while there are no sure things when it comes to disruptive technologies: I do believe that sooner rather than later, indexing pages based on paper is probably going feel like referencing side and track numbers on an LP or 8-track.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by gollu

I am another one that doesn't get why you continue arguing, tubemonkey.

Then don't respond. How simple is that?

[Piper_]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I don't know if you can create one "location index" that would harmonize across the existing file formats. If you can, that will reduce the complexities significantly.

You can't, because locations measure the file's underlying code. Those will be different between formats and between editions.

The location system seems all cool and cutting edge, but it is not the future. The future in ebooks is in more academic use and enhancements. That means more and more hidden code.

Even now, you can see location counts repeatedly jumping all over the place in some books, from 8 locations on one screen to 40 locations on the next, even when the visible text on the screens looks about the same.

That's an indisputable UI 101 fail. Like a browser scroll bar that minutely registered the page source instead of the page itself.

Whatever issues there are with any implementation of pagination, Locations never were the future some people think they are. The future is in improving UI and in more highly formatted ebooks, neither of which are consistent with the location system.

Amazon knows this. Jeff Bezos said it almost a year ago. The only thing that surprises me about this update is how fast they managed to do it.

[hefe]

Originally Posted by carld

"Before you go," displays an extra screen at the end of the book allowing you to Tweet/Share that you've finished the book, and to rate it. I will probably never use this feature. I'm looking now to see if it can be turned off.

Just finished a book and came to this page. I'm not sure why it would need to be turned off. Once you get to the last page, if you hit next page again you get this extra "before you go" page. If you stop when you get to 100%, you won't see it. Or at any time, press Home and leave the book.

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

You know, I lol'ed at the article that said Amazon had its own format so that they could make it better and not have to wait around for new standards to be adopted. But now they have actually done it. This addresses two separate but related complaints: "regular people" who just want to know how long the book is, and academics who need to cite a specific page number of a specific edition. Kudos to Amazon.

eP

EPub has had content related page numbers since the beginning.

And Kindle page numbers were always stable, so they are just as useful for citing.

[emoorman]

I din't have a Kindle, but do use Kindle for Android and for the PC.

What is the big deal about page numbers. Don't you just care where you are in the book? I don't mind either the percentage or the location number. If they are going to tie the page numbers to a print edition, which edition will it be, the first run hard back, the mass market of paperback. I guess if people like, it's OK.

As for the social media additions, sounds to me like getting a little free advertising for the book. People, except me, love to get on Facebook and Twitter and that is a good way to promote a book among friends. Good for sales, I'll bet.

The one I like is the immediate feedback. I'll review it and give my opinion if I bought it. It would help to remind me to do it.

Now if they would only make an ereader small enough for a man's dress shirt pocket...

[ChrisChillin]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Heck, at some point you may even be able to include an annotated digital version of the texts you cite as appendixes to your thesis....

I'm going to assume I'll be done before anything remotely like this takes shape!

While I concur that "it's not there yet," IMO it's a matter of time before the economics of printing and buying paper versions stops working for colleges and universities.

Perhaps. To get to a complete or near-complete switchover, however, would require a format standardization. We're a long way from sorting that out. The "short term" may last quite a while.

Actually, the examiner would have to acquire the title somehow, but not necessarily the device. Kindle software is available for multiple devices, including iOS, Android OS, Windows and Mac.

D'ohh! Yeah...I downloaded Kindle for PC a few months before I got the K3. But since then I've so avoided reading on computer screens that I pretty much have forgotten that it can be done!

Although I expect paper to persist, I'm not sure how things will play out for academia. The print runs are shorter, and it's possible (though I'm not sure) that paper costs are higher than with general interest books.

And while there are no sure things when it comes to disruptive technologies: I do believe that sooner rather than later, indexing pages based on paper is probably going feel like referencing side and track numbers on an LP or 8-track.

I think in general that academia has already embraced digital research in a big way. I've benefited heavily from Internet journal databases. But I still think that this "short term" will be a drawn-out process and I don't think paper will ever be completely replaced. There are ways in which it is too useful of an interface! Even if page numbers in digital editions is an intermediate measure, nevertheless it is a welcome one that will help move this transition along.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by carld

"Before you go," displays an extra screen at the end of the book allowing you to Tweet/Share that you've finished the book, and to rate it. I will probably never use this feature. I'm looking now to see if it can be turned off.

i also want to turn this off - I thought it had been added to end of books but I now realise it's a kindle "feature" that appeared in 3.1

as someone who has no desire to signup for facebook , twitter et al, I find it an annoyance & don't want to see it again.