Stars fall in Amazon protest about ebook prices

[cvkemp]

I face the fact if it is a book I need or a book I want to read I am going to try to get it for the kindle first if not then I will buy the paper book and I do not even look at the price. But if it is a book that I believe that I will like to read, but do not know then I love the fact that I can sample the book on my kindle first to see if it is worth it.
But with that said over 80% of my books (ebooks) are free because I look for the free downloads and the classics.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

The more backups you do, the more space you need for them. And buying flash drives, external hard drives, and/or space online costs money. Plus time; and time is money, isn't it?

Ebooks are tiny -- typically 1mb or less. An ebook will cost you $0.000062 to back up to an external hard drive and takes virtually no time. Backing up your files is virtually free.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I don't get the great appeal of instantaneously getting your book.

The rest of our society gets it, by the way.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I mean what serious reader doesn't have a few books on a “to be read” list? Does everybody see a book title and decide that they want to start reading it immediately?

Oh yeah, another advantage I forgot to mention: You can't rip out the first 2% of a paper book and carry it as a sample for your convenience.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

And you are right, search and annotations are advantages of ebooks, but those sound like something work-related to me.

Or school-related, or for people who just like to mark up their books. (Paper is easier to annotate, by the way, but you can't edit or erase hand-written notes.)

The real issue, though, is that ebooks are in fact a completely different format with its own pros and cons. When you are only pointing out what you lose with paper, you're just taking the ways ebooks are saving you money for granted (especially with delivery, and re-delivery of ebooks).

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by NormHart

Only 9 of the 100 ebooks are priced at over $10.00 I suspect this means that a lot of first run Sci Fi from top authors/major Publishers are not making the Top 100 Paid sales list. This contrasts with 11 over $10.00 in the top 20 in the overall Bestsellers in Kindle eBooks list.

I suspect that the Publishers will, eventually get the message.

They might, but in doing so you're making a basic error in terms of the economics. Lower price may mean higher volume, but it also means lower revenues.

For example, let's say that Book X sells 1,000 copies per month. If it's an agency book selling for $12.50, that is $12,500 that is split between retailer (30%) and publisher (70%). The cover price also sets the royalty rate, let's say 20%, which comes out of the publisher's cut. So the publisher is getting $6.25 per book, or $6250.

Now they cut the price of the book to $10. To match the same revenues, they now need to sell 25% more just to break even. The publisher's cut drops from $6.50 to $5 per book, and the author is getting $2 instead of $2.50. (How many authors will be happy with a 20% cut in their royalties, by the way? )

There are numerous other factors, but the reality is that none of us here can definitively state that cutting the cover price by 20% will automatically generate a 25% or greater increase in sales.

[leebase]

These "protestors" are hurting other READERS, not the authors. When I read reviews, I want them to be about the CONTENT of the book. I can decide for myself if the price is too high.

Lee

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Ebooks are tiny -- typically 1mb or less. An ebook will cost you $0.000062 to back up to an external hard drive and takes virtually no time. Backing up your files is virtually free.

So you download the book on your kindle and copy it on your computer, or you download it on your computer and copy it on your kindle. Strip DRM, if it is there, connect your external hard drive, wait for the computer so scan through 200 GB of data (it takes longer if you have small files, but you will also have larger files, for example photos), and copy the file after looking for the right folder. Repeat for the backup of the backup.
Or am I wrong and you do the backup on a server?

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

The rest of our society gets it, by the way.
Oh yeah, another advantage I forgot to mention: You can't rip out the first 2% of a paper book and carry it as a sample for your convenience.

Then do me a favor and explain it to me. And also explain why you would want to carry 2% of the book as a sample.

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Or school-related, or for people who just like to mark up their books. (Paper is easier to annotate, by the way, but you can't edit or erase hand-written notes.)

For all students school=work. People usually regard work related expenses differently than personal related expenses. And it creeps me out that there are people who would just like to mark up their books.

[asjogren]

There are 3 reasons eBooks need to be cheaper than paper:
1) Customer's rights are severely constrained
2) Lower cost of replication, distribution, inventory management, and retail operation
3) Customers EXPECT lower prices

Frankly, with the lack of rights to lend and resell, I think that the eBook model should add rental as a significant option - just like video. The movie industry survives quite well with public library lending, DVD sales, and rentals.

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by Fabe

Ultimately we are paying for the value of the content, not the cost of the packaging. There is no reason what-so-ever electronic books should cost less or more than a hard or paperback edition. It comes down to what the market will bear.

With great respect, Fabe, that's bullshit. What we pay for the value of the content is that portion of the price which is the author's royalty. The rest is packaging, sales and marketing, and doesn't add a jot to the value of the content. It just makes the content available to us. And an ebook makes that content available at a much lower cost.

Take a look at the price of a book and how it's made up: take off the cost of paper, cardboard, transport, warehousing and showroom space, and even if you don't think there's a saving on labour costs and profit margins, you've got a product that is considerably lower in price than a hardback or paperback.

I made the comment recently on MR that I buy and read more books when they are reasonably priced e-books than I ever could if all I had was hardbacks or even paperbacks. And I increase the chances that a rookie author will make a sale, since I'm willing to take a chance on an ebook costing 99 cents or a couple of dollars, which I wouldn't take if it cost me $25 or even half that price. Sure it's tough for the Stephen Kings and Dan Browns of this world, but they'll survive.

[SensualPoet]

Penalizing a specific book title with a one-star review at one vendor's website because you don't like the pricing policies of the publisher for all its books and all its vendors ... sounds ineffectual to me. Your time might be better spent reading Cervantes' Don Quixote.

There is a reason new books, and especially books in the potential "best seller" category, are priced at $15 to $40: enough people are out there willing to pay that price. It really has nothing to do with the format -- it DOES have something to do with expectations. This is why we have the category "trade paperback" which is nothing more than a more glamorous container (for the same words sold in a mass market paperback edition) which publishers can place a higher price tag on.

Intuitively, to many consumers ebooks "feel" like they ought to be cheaper than something physical. Yes, they are different, and are consumed, stored and disposed of differently and there is some value or loss of value or trade-offs in that. Still ... having electrons in my purse vs a nice coffee table statement to others ....

When sweet potatoes are too expensive, I buy old potatoes; when asparagus is too expensive I buy broccoli; when extra old cheddar is too expensive I buy medium cheddar. As consumers, we all substitute one thing for another and constantly are applying our own "price elasticity models" in our choices. If Stephen King's latest opus is $15 and that's more than it's worth to me, I can pick up an $8 Rex Stout I've been meaning to read ... or turn on the TV, for that matter.

So, okay: most leading publishers have decided price fixing is the way they want to run their business. As long as they control the authors I want to read, I'll be buying their goods ... as long as they pass my own willingness to pay those prices -- on a title by title basis.

Amazon has done consumers a favour -- pace, Steven Lake -- by creating the $10 price point as the inflexion point of value. It is sufficiently lower than traditional hardcovers, and neatly spans the middle ground from cheap reprints to trade paper, to create a sense of value for ebooks themselves. I am one of those consumers who would never have bought an ereader had I believed ebooks cost $15 or more -- the $10 "ceiling" promise was the assurance I needed to take the plunge. And it is that price point, going forward, which also "defines" affordability for me going forward.

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

So you download the book on your kindle and copy it on your computer, or you download it on your computer and copy it on your kindle. Strip DRM, if it is there, connect your external hard drive, wait for the computer so scan through 200 GB of data (it takes longer if you have small files, but you will also have larger files, for example photos), and copy the file after looking for the right folder. Repeat for the backup of the backup.
Or am I wrong and you do the backup on a server?


Then do me a favor and explain it to me. And also explain why you would want to carry 2% of the book as a sample.


For all students school=work. People usually regard work related expenses differently than personal related expenses. And it creeps me out that there are people who would just like to mark up their books.

You're way off base, Kali has it right. I've got 2,000 ebooks, less than 2gb disk space, why in the world would I be using a backup program for that. Just copy the directory over to the ext. HD, 1 or 2 min. and you're done.

I love the ability to be sitting in the airport waiting area, deciding that I want to read the latest whatever, and get it immediately. Or I can get samples instead of having to buy the book. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow you.

[Barcey]

Most consumers don't want to change their behaviour. If they don't like the price they complain. When they are faced with a faceless website they complain in the easiest way they can, one star reviews. It does work because news stories get written about the protest. It can't be as easily ignored as letters to the publishers and authors.

Some companies actually care about what their customers think and if they are satisfied. The publishing industry thinks their customers are whinny entitled children and hope they'll just shut up and buy the books.

The only real protest is to stop buying from them. Personally I'm enjoying having the extra $500 a year to spend elsewhere.

[suecsi]

I don't think it is necessarily the pricing of e-books as a whole that is driving this protest - I think it is the fact that some 'Kindle Editions' are more expensive than the equivalent paperback. That is sure to get people's backs up. AFAIK, Amazon (or any other e-book retailer) aren't allowed to discount the e-book in the same way as they can the paperback or hardback. So it just looks really bizarre when a paperback has gone down to £5.99 and the Kindle Edition is still £8. Before this Agency 5 kicked off in the UK, Kindle Editions were fairly consistently priced at about 50p to a £1 under the paperback price.

In terms of overall pricing, I'm happy to pay up to what the paperback price is, but I wouldn't pay more than that.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Fabe

Ultimately we are paying for the value of the content, not the cost of the packaging. There is no reason what-so-ever electronic books should cost less or more than a hard or paperback edition. It comes down to what the market will bear.

One of the major issues besides the price is that there the Agency Model will not allow sales or discounts. So while the paperback and eBook are both say priced at $7.99, I can get the paperback cheaper as Borders send discounts via email. But the eBook then becomes MORE expensive because there is no discount or sale.

So how is this a good value? Also, I've seen too many cases where the pBook is published in a cheaper paperback and the price of the eBook doesn't fall in line and stays at the hardcover price.

Also, the publishers fail to realize something important. People who want the eBook DO NOT WANT the hardcover. They do not want to pay hardcover price. Also, according to the terms and conditions, the eBook has less going for it the then pBook and thus should be priced less due to these restrictions. We are not allowed to resell and eBook. We are not to strip the DRM (if the publishers had their way), we are not allowed to allowed to give away an eBook. We are not allowed the rights we should be allowed for purchasing something. The sites say BUY on them, not rent or lease. So since they say we are BUYING, then we deserve the rights we get pBooks.

All of this nonsense undermines the value of an eBook vs a pBook. So why are we paying the same or more? Where is the value in that?

Now, picture this, you have a book out in hardcover that say goes got $25. the eBook is priced at say $14.99. The think is, would you rather have say 5 sales of the eBook at $14.99 for a grand total of $74.95 or say 10 sales of the eBook at $9.99 for 99.90? If an eBook that has a current hardcover version is priced no higher then $9.99, it will sell a lot more and the publisher and author will make more money and the reader will get a much better value for the money. How does this not work out for everyone?

My purchasing of eBooks has lowered and I've gone more to the library/Overdrive to get FREE eBooks. Every eBook I might have bought but didn't is a lost sale for the Agency 5. So would you rather your eBooks sell for $6 or would you rather they don't sell for $12.99?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

That doesn't explain why paperbacks cost less than hardcover. If we are not paying for the cost of packaging, then they should cost the same, since the content is the same.

And, it appears from the protest, that the market will not bear the cost of print book prices for ebooks.

The reason hardcovers cost more is because the packaging is different. We are paying more for higher quality packaging. An eBook's packaging doesn't depend on the pBook's packaging. An eBook will always have the same packaging as the day it was released.

Now the issue is paperback formats. The new format that's designed to get more money instead of having the book in mass market paperback is asinine. It's not any better value to the reader and in fact, that taller, thinner format is not as nice to hold in one's hands. Plus the main reason they brought out that format was so they could charge more for a paperback.

Publishers don't give a damn about what's best for the reader. They only care what they perceive as what's best for their wallets. Reading a good book should be a good experience. But the publishers do not care. They just want to make as much money as they can. They don't realize that if the reading experience is not all that good anymore, the sales will drop. People will go to the library, they will go to the darknet, they will do what it takes not to pay for a substandard reading experience.

If anyone has any pull with the publishers or authors of Agency 5 books, please tell them to get their heads out of their asses and do something about this. if bog name authors were to tell the publishers to can the agency model on their eBooks when it comes time to sign a new contract, then either the publisher will have to concede or the author is free to go to a publisher that will not be so stupid.

We need to get the authors in line with what the readers want since the Agency 5 publishers have their heads too far up their asses to see any light at all.

[texasnightowl]

Originally Posted by suecsi

I don't think it is necessarily the pricing of e-books as a whole that is driving this protest - I think it is the fact that some 'Kindle Editions' are more expensive than the equivalent paperback. That is sure to get people's backs up. AFAIK, Amazon (or any other e-book retailer) aren't allowed to discount the e-book in the same way as they can the paperback or hardback. So it just looks really bizarre when a paperback has gone down to £5.99 and the Kindle Edition is still £8. Before this Agency 5 kicked off in the UK, Kindle Editions were fairly consistently priced at about 50p to a £1 under the paperback price.

In terms of overall pricing, I'm happy to pay up to what the paperback price is, but I wouldn't pay more than that.

THIS. And when e-book versions of older books are priced at or higher than the price of a new book.

My current aggravation is with Macmillan/St. Martin's. I've been wanting to pick up an ebook copy of Laurie R. King's "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" but the publisher has it priced at $9.99. The catch? The paperback was published originally 14 years ago! at a cover price of $6.99! I can understand the most recent addition to the series being $9.99 or even $12.99, but it really bugs me that they are trying to charge $9.99 for a 14 year old book! The Agency 5 can kiss my xyz. I picked up a used copy of the book which means neither author nor publisher got any money from me.

[astra]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Publishers don't give a damn about what's best for the reader. They only care what they perceive as what's best for their wallets.

I might add it to my favourite quotes