How do you plan to wait out the coming ebook shakedown?

[patrickt]

Ficbot, I noticed you did not say you would suspend your whining. Was that an oversight or do you plan to keep whining?

[jbcohen]

Unfortunately I am seeing a concerted effort on the part of the publishing industry to raise prices which have been largely sucessfull. I am seeing an evental converging of the prices of hardback and softbacks. Years ago the average paperback price was $8 now the average is approximatly $13, still less then harbacks but from what I am seeing the industry is moving to phase out what is often referred to as mass market paperbacks, which tend to top out at $10 in favor of the trade paper backs which generally start at $15 and can go as high as $25. My current cost limit is $8 and will drop that lower if I can find a company who will do it for less. I am always seeking companies to get me what I need for less, not more. I have no faith that the public will restrict prices becuase from what I have seen people will pay absolutely any amount for anything at all.

[drofgnal]

I'm with most here. I've paid amazon 12.99 for a new release, that seems to be my tops. I won't go beyond that. There is an awful lot of material that I can read to keep me happy and occupied. I still have a stack of TBR material in paper form that I had before I bought my first Kindle. Of course I try to mix in a classic or two from time to time. I have a ton of those loaded and waiting in my ipad. So in essence I can wait the big publishers out.

Every now and then a new book does come out that I think is a must read. Fall of Giants is one. I would have broken my 12.99 limit for that one, but at 19.99 I said no way!! I'm buying the HB (cheaper than the ebook from amazon), of course I'll get a read, my dad, my wife, my sister, and any others who want to read it. Then I'll donate it to the library or trade it in a used book store. My form of protest. At 12.99 or even 14.99 (for that one) the publisher would have had a definite sale on day one. At 19.99 they ended up with one book getting several reads.

[foghat]

^ yes $19.99 is a lot. But I 'd pay it if it was a book I really wanted. Lucky for me I was able to get Fall of Giants for $9.99 in the Canadian Kindle store.

[mldavis2]

Very few of the books I read are 'dated' such that they require immediate reading. Sci-Fi, mystery, philosophy, auto-biography -- all can mature to reasonable prices. There are so many great classics out there for free that I'll never run out, so with rare exception, there are no books that I absolutely 'must' purchase at book store prices as an eBook.

As I posted elsewhere, eBooks do not provide the value of pBooks in terms of flexibility, durability, physical presence and obsolescence, so we should not be paying for something we don't receive from a digital copy. It's up to the market place to dictate terms, not the publishers.

[foghat]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

As I posted elsewhere, eBooks do not provide the value of pBooks in terms of flexibility, durability, physical presence and obsolescence, so we should not be paying for something we don't receive from a digital copy. It's up to the market place to dictate terms, not the publishers.

Not really following you here in terms of paying for something we don't receive from a digital copy.

I doubt any of your 'terms' above are considered by the author/publisher/whoever when setting the price of a pbook. Maybe physical presence if you look at price differences between hardcover vs. paperback - and I believe that to be a stretch.

Even if I were to concede (in fact, I'd argue the opposite, except in the case of physical presence) that a pbook meets your 'terms' better than an ebook, ebooks offer their own advantages. Advantages that a pbook absolutely cannot meet - which somewhat negates an implied argument that a pbook is worth more because it meets some subset of subjective 'terms'.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by foghat

I doubt any of your 'terms' above are considered by the author/publisher/whoever when setting the price of a pbook.

They're certainly aware that customers are considering those traits; that's why "collector's editions" exist. They're aware that most customers consider hardcovers "better" than paperback, and it's not just because of the larger print size.

Even if I were to concede (in fact, I'd argue the opposite, except in the case of physical presence) that a pbook meets your 'terms' better than an ebook, ebooks offer their own advantages.

They do. However, some of the potential advantages of ebooks are negated by DRM. DRM'd ebooks are trying to be accepted as one-person, single-use entertainment purchases, while pitching themselves as permanent zero-space archive editions. ("You can just re-download your Kindle books!"... unless, of course, they were magazines, or Amazon has stopped carrying that title for legal reasons.)

Authors and publishers both argue that a great deal of time & effort goes into the creation of a book, and it provides more entertainment (by number of hours) than a movie, and therefore you should be willing to pay more than a movie for the ebook, for something you'll read once, maybe twice, and don't share. And the logic there is sound--except that's never been how "books" worked.

They're counting on the longstanding appeal of "books" but trying to sell things that don't act like books.

Meh. The publishers & authors who understand digital purchases will find themselves successful; those who don't, will either shift business models or die slowly.

[foghat]

^ again, I will concede physical presence. How do flexibility, durability, and obsolescence apply to Collectors Editions?

both ebooks and pbooks have there pros and cons. In either case version I get the same story, the fact that ebooks can be made and distributed cheaper, well good for the publishers. If they choose to pass the savings along to us, great, if not, I honestly don't care.

Sure in cases where the ebook is more than the pbook, that seems nuts and I don't get it. But like I said before, I won't lose any sleep over it and if I decide I really want it, I'll pay.

Honestly not having to go to the bookstore, not having to deal with the physicals size of the book (I can only imagine how large my current read, World without End, is in pbook), and being able to adjust font sizes, have a built in dictionary available, etc, is worth the premium - in the cases where there is a premium - even if from a purely objective point of view it doesn't make sense that you pay a premium on an ebook.

[Hellmark]

I refuse to pay more for an ebook than paperback, and I generally won't pay more than $5.

The $5 limit is something I do for all books, paper or electronic, due to being poor. I do go more than that sometimes, if it is a book I really want. I refuse to pay more than paperback for, and generally am hesitant if same price as paperback. If I run across a book and it is more than I can afford, or is more than a paperback, I get something else. Plenty of competition that meets my wants.

[mldavis2]

I am in no way arguing that pBooks are 'better' than eBooks, @foghat. My personal sense of what's 'fair' for me is that I shouldn't have to pay the same or more for exactly the same text content in an eBook when I don't have to pay for paper, printer's ink, transportation and physical display space. An eBook is cheaper to produce and market when you remove the extra costs associated with paper and ink. The editors do the same job of proofreading and evaluation, but are spared production costs beyond the content, which is profit. I'm receiving the exact same content, but I'm not receiving a book, binding, printing ink, nor am I receiving the ability to 'loan' that book for any length of time in the future to any person of my choice, and I am certainly not guaranteed that the eBook will be readable 20 years from now when the printer's ink is still legible on a pBook. They can put whatever price they want on the eBook, but if they don't want to pass along their cost savings to me, I won't bother them with the nuisance of having to sell one to me. I'm not saying there aren't advantages to eReaders over pBooks, just that the advantages are inherent in the reading device itself, not the format of electrons vs. paper.

[foghat]

^ most of that I can buy and understand. I was really only trying to understand your point that I quoted above, where you say you don't want to pay for something you don't receive from a digital copy - flexibility, durability, physical presence and obsolescence.

I'm just saying that I doubt those items contribute to the price of a pbook.

If you personally feel that because an ebook does not meet those criteria, you won't pay the same price for an ebook, that is, of course your, choice to make. But, if those criteria do not contribute to the price of a pbook, is it realistic to expect an ebook to be less based on not meeting said criteria? I don't think so.

I do feel you are right about ebooks costing less to 'make' and distribute and should be priced less based on this. Hopefully some day this will always be the case. In the meantime if I have to, I will pay an extra couple of dollars to get the ebook.

[mldavis2]

Originally Posted by foghat

I do feel you are right about ebooks costing less to 'make' and distribute and should be priced less based on this. Hopefully some day this will always be the case. In the meantime if I have to, I will pay an extra couple of dollars to get the ebook.

I think we're on the same page here (pun intended). I guess I'm not sure why you would agree to pay more for the same eBook than the pBook edition. Are you out of bookshelf space, or do you see the eBook actually worth more for the convenience despite the potential obstacles of portability and obsolescence? By paying a higher price for the eBook, you are encouraging price gouging by the publishers, are you not? I assume then that your response to the thread is that you would do nothing to wait out any eBook shakedown? (No argument here, just questions. Thanks for the response.)

[foghat]

Originally Posted by mldavis2

I think we're on the same page here (pun intended). I guess I'm not sure why you would agree to pay more for the same eBook than the pBook edition. Are you out of bookshelf space, or do you see the eBook actually worth more for the convenience despite the potential obstacles of portability and obsolescence? By paying a higher price for the eBook, you are encouraging price gouging by the publishers, are you not? I assume then that your response to the thread is that you would do nothing to wait out any eBook shakedown? (No argument here, just questions. Thanks for the response.)

Honestly, I find the reading experience so much more enjoyable with an ebook. Especially now using my kindle. I love being able to hold the kindle with one hand or laying it flat on a pillow on my lap and have both hands free for a snack or a drink. When reading epic size novels, as I am doing now, not having to cope with bulk of a pbook is fantastic. I can confidently say, I will likely never read a pbook novel again.

Plus, I am a bit of a geek. Even if you take away the convenience of being able to buy books without leaving the house or being able to travel and take all your novels with you in one compact form, I love the chapter markers, percent complete, built in dictionaries, etc. You can say this is a function of the reader, not the ebook - whatever - they are one in the same.

You talk about portability and obsolescence being a concern with ebooks. I disagree. Regarding obsolescence: fact is the drm is easy to remove - talk about whether it is legal or not, I don't care. I bought the book, I can remove the drm and easily sleep at night. remove the drm and use calibre and now you have a book that can be used on any device can be 'lent' to anyone for any length of time.

If you want to go to extremes and say, what if a drm scheme gets developed that cannot be cracked, what if calibre goes away and there is no replacement, what if amazon goes out of business and/or my kindle breaks and my kindle drm'd books are useless?

To that I say, what if your house burns down, what if you get robbed, what if you lend the book out and forget to who (has happened to me in the past), what if you spill coffee all over your pbook, what if, what if, what if.

Reality is, barring some catastrophic world event, you are going to be able to read your ebook file for many, many years to come. I would argue that the ebook will stand the test of time far better than a pbook.

You talk about portability - I don't follow how you think a pbook is more portable than an ebook. You can have hundreds of ebooks on a device smaller than a hardcover. Maybe I am missing what you are getting at here.

I also do not necessarily agree that by paying the higher price I am supporting price gouging. If I decide not to buy that book, how does the publisher know they lost a sale due to price? Vs. the publisher just thinking the market isn't there and stopping ebook sales altogether (I know this is extreme example and not likely to happen).

Also, let keep in mind that the majority (at least that I've seen) of ebooks are the same price or a little less than their pbook equivalent. Like I said before, I don't like that ebooks can be higher than the pbook, and I don't understand it. But, if there is an ebook I want to read and it costs more than the pbook, I'm going to buy it (assuming I feel the price reasonable) - why wouldn't I? So I can 'punish' the publisher? Ya right. I'm only punishing myself.

Yes, as I said in my first post in this thread, I am not waiting anything out.

[JSWolf]

For every eBook you want but feel the price is too high, email the publisher and author and let them know why you are not buying that eBook. Tell them so they know. let them know that it's not due to no interest why the eBook isn't selling. let them know that it's due to the price.

[foghat]

^ sounds good in theory. In practice I don't know. Maybe.