Amazon Caves on Text-To-Speech

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Well, duh. That's why I said.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but you said:

So if a DRMed ebook can't be run through TTS software because of the DRM, you can legally remove it. The really cool part is that it doesn't matter why you want to remove the DRM. If a title is available only in eReader, you can remove the DRM. If it is available in MSReader but has the TTS disabled, you can remove the DRM.

Which seems to imply that you can remove any DRM if you cannot run it through TTS. What I meant is that, if there is some version available that has TTS enabled, even if it's a ridiculously expensive one (say, $10 for the normal no-TTS DRM book, $50 for the TTS-enabled DRM book), then you cannot justify DRM removal under that exemption, and it would be formally illegal.

[Greg Anos]

Correct. However, such a move could run afoul of the ADA's anti discrimination laws, and charging a ridiculously high price for TTS enabled e-book would clearly discriminate against visually handicapped people. This is a typical American legal snarl, one law (bought by bri...excuse me lobbied heavily for by one pressure group) conflicting with another law (created for another pressure group), and no way to determine legal priority.

[MsAstoria]

Well, for me I fear that Amazon may disable the text to speech when they do automatic upgrades. I like the feature and feel that I "paid" for it as it was an advertised feature for the upgraded K2 even though it purported to be experimental and can be discontinued at any time. They said that about the basic browser, and it's turned out to be a major selling point for the Kindle! Even though the text to speech has flaws, it nice to have the choice to use it. Like most of you, I have mostly (50+ years since author death) free books that have no expectation of payment for non-enhanced audio playback. After all, I could have purchase Dragon Naturally Speaking software which is the program in the Kindle, and played them on my computer completely legally. I am thoroughly enjoying The Three Eyes (1919) by Maurice Leblanc (FeedBooks.com) and reading along with the narrative. Having the pages turned automatically is a real bonus for arthritic fingers, that, and I can sit back and enjoy my cup of Joe and be mesmerized with the Sci Fi storyline without interruption of turning the page turns myself.

I can understand that the authors and publishing companies should control their Amazon DRM books as per their contracts, and yes, audio should be an option for them so that the consumer can choose from non audio or non-enhanced audio such as what we have the K2 speaking program. Then of course there is professional audio which should cost more as either the actual authors or actors perform the book. It's all about choices.

[MsAstoria]

Originally Posted by astromusic

No quarrels about that. I did not expect anyone to post any piracy information here. I was just looking for clues as to where I would go about finding information to enable TTS. I know that several people bought the K2 with sight issues (not legally blind, but have other issues that prevent them from reading for a long time) and were hoping that they could read a while, listen a while, read a while again... you get the picture. I think this is a wonderful thing for somewhat handicapped people. If you are completely blind you probably can't use it (because you won't be able to navigate menus) but for the partial cases, you can really manage well with TTS capability.

Yes indeed, for example my Mom has macular degeneration which is an eye disease that affects her center vision. So she can "read" really large print from the periphery of her eyes. So everyday printed items such as newspapers and books are nearly impossible to read as the print is too small for someone who has no vision centrally . My Eye Dr tells me that has our baby boomers are aging, this illness is becoming much more prevalent as we live longer. Text to speech is a real answer for this.
Folks like my Mom don't have a computer but something like the Kindle would be ideal and it is fairly easy to learn how to use.

[junkml]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Actually, it goes a little further. Forget my friends. It also prevents me from letting my wife read the book I purchased - she has an iLiad.

It also prevents me from using the file I purchased for the Kindle, on my next ereader, if it does not support the DRM. This would be akin to selling books for use in your home, but if you move, you can't take them with you to the new house.

There are reasonable laws. Then there are laws which ban sex until you are 21, or prohibit alcohol, or marijuana, or sodomy, or condoms, Then there is the DMA.

If you don't have the right model and price structure, too large of a percentage of your potential customers will pilfer your product. Price it right, and most wouldn't bother, but would just pay for it. Simple as that.

Sonist, I agree with you on this. I think the DMCA is completely ridiculous. It is not preventing piracy, it is preventing law-abiding users from taking books they bought two years ago for the Sony and reading them on their new Kindle.

So, when I bought a paperback or hardback I didn't buy "rights" to the content. Fine, but I can still read the damned book in 10 years! With an ebook, they want to charge me the same price as a hardback or paperback, and I may not be able to read it 6 months from now.

Look at the situation Fictionwise ran into with the MSReader formatted books recently. Luckily they were able to work a deal to replace MOST of the books (not all of them). I had two or three novels that were not going to be replaced. What about someone who didn't hear that this was happening, or ignored the email from Fictionwise? Now they may have completely lost access to ebooks they paid to read.

There is very little that is NOT ridiculous about how ebooks are viewed and handled legally! Thanks to the DMCA.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by astromusic

No quarrels about that. I did not expect anyone to post any piracy information here. I was just looking for clues as to where I would go about finding information to enable TTS. I know that several people bought the K2 with sight issues (not legally blind, but have other issues that prevent them from reading for a long time) and were hoping that they could read a while, listen a while, read a while again... you get the picture. I think this is a wonderful thing for somewhat handicapped people. If you are completely blind you probably can't use it (because you won't be able to navigate menus) but for the partial cases, you can really manage well with TTS capability.

But, you could have someone else navigate for you so the book can be read to you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by junkml

I disagree completely with HarryT that this is a good and acceptable thing.

Please don't misrepresent my views. I have certainly not said that the DMCA is a "good thing"; on the contrary, I have said innumerable times that to "criminalize" people for wanting to format-shift content that they have legitimately bought is ridiculous.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So, do you accept, Nate, that you CANNOT legally remove the DRM from ANY book which is sold in the Kindle store that does NOT disable TTS, or for which there is an audiobook version available?

Audiobooks are not mentioned. So yes, there can be an audiobook and you can still remove the DRM if all the other requirements fit the bill.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Where have they indicated that? The article you quote simply says:



I don't read that as saying "they are disabling TTS on all ebooks"!

The problem with Amazon is that if their eBooks that do allow TTS cause say MS Reader eBooks versions to no longer be legal to strip the DRM, is Amazon going to give a free K2 to every disabled person who does currently have a need for TTS? I can see that trying to stay legal could cause all kinds of problems for Jeff with the ADA. Basically, unless Bezos makes thing so disabled people don't have to shell out $389 for a K2, then I think he'll eventually be in big trouble. This is a new can of worms being caused by Amazon. And if I was in charge of the ADA, I'd be all over Amazon till the issue gets sorted.

[junkml]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Please don't misrepresent my views. I have certainly not said that the DMCA is a "good thing"; on the contrary, I have said innumerable times that to "criminalize" people for wanting to format-shift content that they have legitimately bought is ridiculous.

I'll go ahead and apologize for that Harry. But, it seemed like you were supporting the DMCA as just another set of laws to protect copyright, and that no one should have a problem with the DMCA. So, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your position.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by junkml

I'll go ahead and apologize for that Harry. But, it seemed like you were supporting the DMCA as just another set of laws to protect copyright, and that no one should have a problem with the DMCA. So, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your position.

I am a firm believer in the need for copyright laws, but I am absolutely not a believer in preventing people from format-shifting, for their own personal use, content that they've legitimately bought. However, the other side of the coin is that I am a firm advocate of very severe punishment for those who upload such material to the internet illegally. "Trust" has to work both ways: publishers should trust customers to use the content they buy in a responsible manner, but those who abuse that trust should be severely punished.

[junkml]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I am a firm believer in the need for copyright laws, but I am absolutely not a believer in preventing people from format-shifting, for their own personal use, content that they've legitimately bought. However, the other side of the coin is that I am a firm advocate of very severe punishment for those who upload such material to the internet illegally. "Trust" has to work both ways: publishers should trust customers to use the content they buy in a responsible manner, but those who abuse that trust should be severely punished.

I totally agree with that. That's why I'm a big fan and supporter of BAEN. They actually seem to "Get it".

The Author's Guild obviously doesn't.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with Amazon is that if their eBooks that do allow TTS cause say MS Reader eBooks versions to no longer be legal to strip the DRM, is Amazon going to give a free K2 to every disabled person who does currently have a need for TTS? I can see that trying to stay legal could cause all kinds of problems for Jeff with the ADA. Basically, unless Bezos makes thing so disabled people don't have to shell out $389 for a K2, then I think he'll eventually be in big trouble. This is a new can of worms being caused by Amazon. And if I was in charge of the ADA, I'd be all over Amazon till the issue gets sorted.

The DMCA exemption merely says that a TTS-capable version of the book has to exist in order for the exemption not to apply; it certainly does not say that it has to be given away freely, or anything like that. Besides which, you've always stated that the exemption does NOT only apply to disabled people, so why should such people be singled out for "special treatment" by Amazon? If everyone has to pay $389 to get TTS-capable books then nobody is being discriminated against.

You have always been a vocal advocate of the fact that you are permitted by the DMCA exemption to remove DRM from LIT files, Jon. Can we assume that you will now be equally vocal in telling people that they must NOT strip DRM from any book on sale in the Kindle Store, and, naturally, that you will stop doing so yourself?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by junkml

I totally agree with that. That's why I'm a big fan and supporter of BAEN. They actually seem to "Get it".

As am I. That's why I've bought every "Webscription" offering that Baen have ever produced. They deserve our support.

[MsAstoria]

Direct from the Kindle forum @ Amazon: "As far as the author's guild director's suggestion of adding $1.75 to text-to-speech enabled Kindle books, I think that's insulting to us consumers and we should not give in to their greed."

Interesting. So the Author's Guild should keep a kick back fee for Amazon's software on the K2. I think they should have to had shared in the cost of the programming in order to share in the profits over and above their contracts with Amazon.