06-18-2018, 09:28 AM | #46 |
o saeclum infacetum
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I went into this looking for it to be subversive, in part because Dumas was writing during the lead up to the revolutions of 1848, where I would have expected his sympathies to be on the side of the insurgents, especially given that his adored father was an ardent Republican who was badly treated by Napoleon in the long run, although he served him brilliantly in the field. Then, very early on, I thought Dumas signaled very heavily what we were to make of d'Artagnan, when after his father gave him his horse in trust, committing him to treating the horse well and giving it a comfortable retirement, d'Artagnan no sooner got to Paris then he sold them. But perhaps that was the message; that no father can expect entire fealty from his son, who has to find his own way.
Ordinarily I'm no fan of discussing a text in terms of a writer's life, but in a case like this of popular literature, I don't see why not. As I think everyone agrees, I also find the characters to be inconsistent and the message, such as it was, also inconsistent. I found the scene where d'Artagnan returned to Aramis to find him on the verge of holy orders and the exposition of religious philosophy to be subversive and hilarious. Then, of course, Aramis while Aramis throws over religion, again, on receipt of a missive from his lady love, he returns to it eventually, and seemingly wholeheartedly. Perhaps a bit of St. Augustine's, "Lord, make me holy, but not yet," going on there. Although I find no inherent inconsistency in his postponing holy orders for a stint as a musketeer in a time of religious wars. |
06-18-2018, 09:45 AM | #47 | ||||||||
cacoethes scribendi
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From Pevear.
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And, in any case, we eventually move on to: Quote:
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06-18-2018, 09:50 AM | #48 |
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06-18-2018, 09:57 AM | #49 | |
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I guess I agree - the times were very different (or were they?) but there does seem to be a fair bit of hypocrisy in his stance, as you point out when he finds his lady love is back on the scene. It does call in to question the strength of his beliefs. |
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06-18-2018, 10:00 AM | #50 | |
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06-18-2018, 10:05 AM | #51 | |
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I generally find French a tedious language in literature, both for its grammar and for the style of writing (existential, pompous navel-gazing), but Dumas is its towering exception. He had good taste too and loved Shakespeare. He said something like, After God Shakespeare created the most. |
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06-18-2018, 10:08 AM | #52 | ||
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Milady, naturally enough, was my favorite character and I thought the book picked up whenever she appeared. I can come up with a ton of theories about why all the women were portrayed as they were - tempting and controlling. I do wonder if there's an element of anti-Mariolatry going on; there was no sense of women as nurturing or holy. Constance Bonacieux comes closest with her explicit heavy-handed name (Constant Goodheavens), but as Bookpossum said, she needed to be killed off because ultimately she was still an unfaithful wife. Last edited by issybird; 06-18-2018 at 01:37 PM. |
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06-18-2018, 10:09 AM | #53 |
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I partially disagree. It has endured IMO because it is so well written and just so much fun! It is the most read in French. I know of nothing else like it in French. It is a total exception. And comparing it to English books of the time, I must say I think nothing compares to it for just downright entertainment. And think of the other classics he wrote--The Count of Monte Cristo, The Man in the Iron Mask...Dumas was a remarkable author. When I feel down, I turn to Dumas for guaranteed giggles.
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06-18-2018, 10:17 AM | #54 | |
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He didn't treat women any better than he treated the horse--they were disposable and interchangeable. He used Kitty and he raped Milady. I think his supposed love for Constance was a thing of the moment--she was only of interest because she was a damsel in distress and gave him an excuse to play the gallant musketeer--and his grief over her death was maudlin. |
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06-18-2018, 10:26 AM | #55 | |
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I do agree with you, though, that there is wit about Dumas and his tongue-in-cheek descriptions which makes the ride much more enjoyable than reading it for plot and characterization. |
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06-18-2018, 10:46 AM | #56 | |
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If manipulation was her aim, I think that she would more likely have tried to play the noble martyr or pretend to repent. She could have woven a story with herself as victim--that would have been worth a shot at least; it worked with Felton. Or she could have glared defiantly at the men and died with dignity. But I suppose in that male-dominated story, it wasn't enough for her to be beheaded, she had to be shown to be contemptibly weak as well. |
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06-18-2018, 11:01 AM | #57 | |
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There's nobody on the scene to benefit from Milady's last-minute chickenheartedness, so I think your conclusion is correct; we, the readers, are the hoodlums who are in danger of being seduced by Milady's beauty and charm and manipulation and Dumas is Father Pat O'Brien, pulling the strings. Didn't work, though; she's still the most interesting and forceful character in the book. |
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06-18-2018, 11:14 AM | #58 |
cacoethes scribendi
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Even if she wasn't being deliberately manipulative (as you say, she did have legitimate reason to be truly terrified), I don't actually see the portrayal as "contemptibly weak". Arguably some weak moments leading up to the death, but I did not find any of it contemptible.
And perhaps more to the point, I don't see anything here inconsistent with what we had been shown up to now. Her captivity in England, and her reputation prior, all indicated that there was not much she would not stoop to to protect herself; I never saw any indication that she was the type that would walk quietly to the chopping block and lay down her head. And yes, issybird, I agree that Milady is the most interesting character in the book. |
06-18-2018, 11:20 AM | #59 |
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It occurs to me that the point of Milady's behavior leading up to her death is that it was at odds with what would have been expected at that time of high religiosity. If her death was inevitable, it would have been a time for her to gather her thoughts and commend her soul to God, seeking forgiveness for all her sins. But we know Milady had no religious convictions at all (not even of the hypocritical kind common to Richelieu on down), hence her abject terror. This really was the end.
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06-18-2018, 11:33 AM | #60 |
cacoethes scribendi
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Yes, I think there are many things - including religiosity of the time - that make it difficult to work out how the book would have been interpreted then versus what we see now. I see it a bit like watching cartoons with young children, we might both laugh, but it will often be at different things.
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