Help! My jetBook Lite has frozen on me! - Page 4

GhostHawk · 02-08-2010, 06:36 AM

TheBard I suspect you have it sir.

silverraven · 02-08-2010, 07:49 PM

Are many people having problems with the freezing with rechargeable batteries? That is the main reason I got the JBL, to use rechargeables. I plan on sending this to my mom next week, and it will freak her out if it freezes, no way she can do a firmware upgrade. I'll be happy if she learns how to turn it on and choose a book without me talking her through it on the phone!
S

Ken Maltby · 02-09-2010, 01:55 AM

I use rechargeable batteries and have not seen the problem yet. ( Now that you have
got me to say that, who knows?)

With rechargeable batteries you change them out more often than the alkaline
anyway, so your mom won't have any more of a problem if she were to use the
alkaline instead of the rechargable, and she wouldn't have to bother with the
recharging process. While the rechargeable will save money in the long run,
you can often find bricks of 20 or more, of the alkaline, at a low price.

The new NI-ZN rechargables might not have the problem -BUT- they operate
at a higher voltage than the alkaline (remember it will be times 4, in the JBL) and
could destroy the JBL. ( This may be one of the first "Green" products that aren't
all hype, who knows? But until I see word from Ectaco, or a reliable user, that it
is safe in a JBL, I wouldn't want to try it. )

Luck;
Ken

TheBard · 02-09-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

But until I see word from Ectaco, or a reliable user, that it
is safe in a JBL, I wouldn't want to try it.

See
http://www.ectaco.com/ectaco-posts/list/18774.page

Ken Maltby · 02-09-2010, 05:13 PM

With all due respect for Pavel's great performance in customer support, it seems
like a rather quick and limited response. I guess I am a little too chicken to jump
right into them, based on that simple remark. Now if he had mentioned that they
had tested the NiZn AA batteries in the JBL, with no problem, I would probably
give them a try.

There is no way to know how the NiZn batteries will appear to the JBL's charging
circuit and if they are actually immune to the problem. That is until they get tested
in the JBL, by someone.

Luck;
Ken

TheBard · 02-15-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBard

Will keep checking, and see if it happens again at the 1/2 charge point.

Happened again, with rechargeable batteries.

Three charge bars (3/4 full). With no warning, the screen blanked.
Replaced rechargeables with fresh ones. JetBook still locked - no screen activity.

Removed rechargeables and inserted alkalines.
Went through the firmware reload procedure... Took a lot longer this time, compared to last time. LED stayed ON while JetBook logo was shown. I can understand why people might think nothing is happening at this point.

Eventually, the firmware update screen appeared. After pressing OK, the screen changed to the "folder and e", and the LED showed activity (blinked a lot).

Eventually loaded firmware and books, but lost bookmarks.

I wonder if there is an internal battery or capacitor that is supposed to maintain memory when batteries are changed. If so, it seems not to be working on my unit.

jrl007 · 02-17-2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBard

Happened again, with rechargeable batteries.

Three charge bars (3/4 full). With no warning, the screen blanked.
Replaced rechargeables with fresh ones. JetBook still locked - no screen activity.

Removed rechargeables and inserted alkalines.
Went through the firmware reload procedure... Took a lot longer this time, compared to last time. LED stayed ON while JetBook logo was shown. I can understand why people might think nothing is happening at this point.

Eventually, the firmware update screen appeared. After pressing OK, the screen changed to the "folder and e", and the LED showed activity (blinked a lot).

Eventually loaded firmware and books, but lost bookmarks.

I wonder if there is an internal battery or capacitor that is supposed to maintain memory when batteries are changed. If so, it seems not to be working on my unit.

As I am awaiting the delivery of my JBL later today, I think I'm going to invest in a brick of some name brand alkalines. We have a couple of battery rechargers and I was going to invest in some new rechargables but I think I'll hold off on that...

adreamer · 02-17-2010, 07:57 AM

Not sure if this will help, but I'm using Sony's Cycle Energy (Sony's version of Eneloop) without any issues. I'm not facing any lockups. Anybody else using this kind of batteries? If so, is it freezing for you?

Ken Maltby · 02-17-2010, 10:33 AM

I don't know how common the "freezing" issue is, I have not encountered it.

The JBL is relatively new and there may be hardware issues related to some
production runs, that are not seen in others. Just as with the software, we
can expect that the later versions should show the benefit of experience.
Of course, that may not be much help if you have one that is subject to a
problem that gets corrected in later production runs. ( Except that if you
find that, this is the case, then you should have a good argument for a
replacement, from the manufacturer.)

Another factor that those of us looking at the issue from afar have to
take into consideration, is the "operator/user". They are not standardized
and are subject to erratic functioning.

For this type of problem we also have the variables introduced by the
batteries. The chemistry, source materials, quality checking, handling and
storage, charging, ect..., are all unknown to the user, much less those of
us reading the thread.

I have no idea if we will ever know the reason that some have encountered
the problem. I think that most, probably haven't, but I have no way of finding
out, for sure. I just keep an eye out for any sign there is a problem developing.

No problem, so far.

Luck;
Ken

cmbs · 02-19-2010, 12:31 AM

I got my JetBook Lite about a month ago. I am using rechargeable batteries. The batteries ALWAYS die when the meter says they're still at half strength. Soon after it turns to half strength. It died when I was reading and I replaced the batteries with newly recharged ones and it seemed to be freezing at the first screen. It finally did finally move past that screen after several minutes, like ten. I often change them when it gets to 50% and don't have problems. Seems like waiting for the batteries to die and the unit to shut itself off may be something we want to avoid because it seems to cause problems.

Ken Maltby · 02-19-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbs

I got my JetBook Lite about a month ago. I am using rechargeable batteries. The batteries ALWAYS die when the meter says they're still at half strength. Soon after it turns to half strength. It died when I was reading and I replaced the batteries with newly recharged ones and it seemed to be freezing at the first screen. It finally did finally move past that screen after several minutes, like ten. I often change them when it gets to 50% and don't have problems. Seems like waiting for the batteries to die and the unit to shut itself off may be something we want to avoid because it seems to cause problems.

I agree that for now that is the simplest way to deal with the JBL's power
monitor running under the power utilization curve for Alkaline batteries.
Hopefully, Ectaco can/will come up with a patch that lets us set the type
of batteries in use.

Changing the rechargeable batteries at the half way point is not that much
of a problem, at least for now, I'm getting a few days at least between
charges.

Luck;
Ken

GA Russell · 02-19-2010, 01:09 PM

Maybe I'm still confused about the difference between NiCad and NiMh batteries.

It is agreed that NiCads should be avoided nowadays. Right?

So now I use NiMh. Doesn't recharging the batteries prematurely decrease the performance of the battery?

GhostHawk · 02-19-2010, 01:26 PM

I think the issue may be the Jetbook not reading the power remaining correctly for rechargeable battery's. However I am not near the tech expert that some here are.

But I am pretty sure rechargeable's tend to drop voltage faster, might not even start as high. Like 1.2 v vs 1.6 for alkaline's.

So the Jetbook may be incorrectly reading them.
In any case, I think long term you'd be happier recharging them more often than locking up the Jetbook. Even if you do suffer some slight long term difference because of charging them early.

However if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

TheBard · 02-19-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

I'm still confused about the difference between NiCad and NiMh batteries.

Both NiCad and NiMH AA batteries output 1.2 volts DC.
NiMH is advertised as having "no memory effect" (can be charged at any time during the use cycle, and do not need periodic "refreshing")
In general, current NiMH AA batteries have a higher current rating (mAh ... milliamp hours)

Quote:

Doesn't recharging the batteries prematurely decrease the performance of the battery?

Not recharging the battery always results in a significant decrease in performance of the device powered by the battery, when the voltage drops below a certain level.

Discharge curve of NiMH:

Note how the voltage stays fairly constant to about 80% of capacity, then suddenly drops.

TheBard · 02-19-2010, 04:27 PM

Comparison chart -
The chart below shows the discharge curve for two AA Alkaline brands. The X-axis has a different value, but one can calculate the Discharge Capacity in percent, by dividing the X-axis value by the battery's rating.

Astute observers will see additional differences between the two graphs. The NiMH chart above seems to assume users live in a very cold refrigerator. I guess we could read our JBLs by the refrigerator light, but some gnome is supposed to turn it OFF when the door is closed

Conclusion:
Other than noting average operating voltage, I'm not going to make one.

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02-08-2010, 06:36 AM	#46
GhostHawk Data Privateer! Posts: 586 Karma: 62887 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fargo ND Device: Ectaco Jetbook& Jetbook Lite	TheBard I suspect you have it sir.

02-08-2010, 07:49 PM	#47
silverraven Guru Posts: 967 Karma: 3438612 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle 4NTB x 4	Are many people having problems with the freezing with rechargeable batteries? That is the main reason I got the JBL, to use rechargeables. I plan on sending this to my mom next week, and it will freak her out if it freezes, no way she can do a firmware upgrade. I'll be happy if she learns how to turn it on and choose a book without me talking her through it on the phone! S

02-09-2010, 01:55 AM	#48
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,465 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	I use rechargeable batteries and have not seen the problem yet. ( Now that you have got me to say that, who knows?) With rechargeable batteries you change them out more often than the alkaline anyway, so your mom won't have any more of a problem if she were to use the alkaline instead of the rechargable, and she wouldn't have to bother with the recharging process. While the rechargeable will save money in the long run, you can often find bricks of 20 or more, of the alkaline, at a low price. The new NI-ZN rechargables might not have the problem -BUT- they operate at a higher voltage than the alkaline (remember it will be times 4, in the JBL) and could destroy the JBL. ( This may be one of the first "Green" products that aren't all hype, who knows? But until I see word from Ectaco, or a reliable user, that it is safe in a JBL, I wouldn't want to try it. ) Luck; Ken

02-09-2010, 05:13 PM	#50
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,465 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	With all due respect for Pavel's great performance in customer support, it seems like a rather quick and limited response. I guess I am a little too chicken to jump right into them, based on that simple remark. Now if he had mentioned that they had tested the NiZn AA batteries in the JBL, with no problem, I would probably give them a try. There is no way to know how the NiZn batteries will appear to the JBL's charging circuit and if they are actually immune to the problem. That is until they get tested in the JBL, by someone. Luck; Ken

02-17-2010, 07:57 AM	#53
adreamer Member Posts: 23 Karma: 24 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: India Device: iPad 2, Paperwhite 2	Not sure if this will help, but I'm using Sony's Cycle Energy (Sony's version of Eneloop) without any issues. I'm not facing any lockups. Anybody else using this kind of batteries? If so, is it freezing for you?

02-17-2010, 10:33 AM	#54
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,465 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	I don't know how common the "freezing" issue is, I have not encountered it. The JBL is relatively new and there may be hardware issues related to some production runs, that are not seen in others. Just as with the software, we can expect that the later versions should show the benefit of experience. Of course, that may not be much help if you have one that is subject to a problem that gets corrected in later production runs. ( Except that if you find that, this is the case, then you should have a good argument for a replacement, from the manufacturer.) Another factor that those of us looking at the issue from afar have to take into consideration, is the "operator/user". They are not standardized and are subject to erratic functioning. For this type of problem we also have the variables introduced by the batteries. The chemistry, source materials, quality checking, handling and storage, charging, ect..., are all unknown to the user, much less those of us reading the thread. I have no idea if we will ever know the reason that some have encountered the problem. I think that most, probably haven't, but I have no way of finding out, for sure. I just keep an eye out for any sign there is a problem developing. No problem, so far. Luck; Ken

02-19-2010, 12:31 AM	#55
cmbs non-believer Posts: 384 Karma: 713 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Device: Cybook Gen 3, JetBook Lite	I got my JetBook Lite about a month ago. I am using rechargeable batteries. The batteries ALWAYS die when the meter says they're still at half strength. Soon after it turns to half strength. It died when I was reading and I replaced the batteries with newly recharged ones and it seemed to be freezing at the first screen. It finally did finally move past that screen after several minutes, like ten. I often change them when it gets to 50% and don't have problems. Seems like waiting for the batteries to die and the unit to shut itself off may be something we want to avoid because it seems to cause problems.

02-19-2010, 01:09 PM	#57
GA Russell Opening Day June 6 Posts: 7,593 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	Maybe I'm still confused about the difference between NiCad and NiMh batteries. It is agreed that NiCads should be avoided nowadays. Right? So now I use NiMh. Doesn't recharging the batteries prematurely decrease the performance of the battery?

02-19-2010, 01:26 PM	#58
GhostHawk Data Privateer! Posts: 586 Karma: 62887 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fargo ND Device: Ectaco Jetbook& Jetbook Lite	I think the issue may be the Jetbook not reading the power remaining correctly for rechargeable battery's. However I am not near the tech expert that some here are. But I am pretty sure rechargeable's tend to drop voltage faster, might not even start as high. Like 1.2 v vs 1.6 for alkaline's. So the Jetbook may be incorrectly reading them. In any case, I think long term you'd be happier recharging them more often than locking up the Jetbook. Even if you do suffer some slight long term difference because of charging them early. However if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

02-19-2010, 04:27 PM	#60
TheBard Bifocal Wearer Posts: 49 Karma: 38902 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: USA Device: Kobo Touch, Aura, Clara ...	Comparison chart - The chart below shows the discharge curve for two AA Alkaline brands. The X-axis has a different value, but one can calculate the Discharge Capacity in percent, by dividing the X-axis value by the battery's rating. Astute observers will see additional differences between the two graphs. The NiMH chart above seems to assume users live in a very cold refrigerator. I guess we could read our JBLs by the refrigerator light, but some gnome is supposed to turn it OFF when the door is closed Conclusion: Other than noting average operating voltage, I'm not going to make one.

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