07-25-2014, 05:18 AM | #46 | ||
.~^пиратка^~.
Posts: 238
Karma: 14000
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ask NSA...
Device: Onyx Boox M92
|
Quote:
Quote:
---- Is the flipping copyright lecture mandatory do get help in this forum? The ratio of pro copyright ranting in this thread, to actual technical discussion, is like 4 - 1. Did I miss the secret initiation rite where you have to write in blood that you swear to protect copyright before all else, as I joined the forum? Or are there people on the payroll of some kind of international pro copyright organisation? Seriously: got the message back on page 1. A brief "just be careful that you don't break any copyright laws, the forum discourages that", would have been sufficient. We are educated adults here, aren't we? All this totally OTT lecturing just has the opposite effect, let me assure you. |
||
07-25-2014, 05:48 AM | #47 | ||
Wizard
Posts: 2,297
Karma: 12126329
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kobo Forma, Nook
|
Quote:
There is some good/important info here for how to pull HTML out of dastardly javascript sites. This should be helpful to quite a few people in their various projects. I know there were a few projects on my end that were stuck in some crappy websites, and my usual web crawler wouldn't work. Quote:
|
||
Advert | |
|
07-25-2014, 01:55 PM | #48 | |||
Imperfect Perfectionist
Posts: 483
Karma: 724664
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ølstykke, Denmark
Device: none
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That said (I'll probably be inviting some bashing from the non-copyright wing, but I just can't keep my mouth shut, can I ): I do make a sort of living from my "art" - not art as in painting or music, as skreutzer seems to have read it, but the "art" of making - I think - beautiful ebooks from otherwise unreadable sources for a rather modest fee. Charging for my work makes me able to buy food, shelter, a computer and an internet connection, and live on to make more works accessible instead of lying down to die in the nearest ditch. Make no mistake, I fully respect those, that does such work for free, it's their choice - I just don't, and I would be seriously p..... off if someone grabbed a copy of ... say, one of my translations - representing several hundred hours of work - and spread them as their own. Regards Kim |
|||
07-25-2014, 03:49 PM | #49 |
Software Developer
Posts: 190
Karma: 89000
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Device: PocketBook Touch Lux 3
|
@elibrarian:
Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with making beautiful books from otherweise unreadable sources for a rather modest fee (I do the same, but without the fee part because of tax law), as long as you don't put your results under new copyright restriction for another 70 years after your death in order to generate payments by artificially restricting access and violating the digital freedoms your readers deserve just as any other computer user does. I for instance would pay for such work if the result is freely licensed (I didn't actually do yet except in the field of software development), and I would refuse a restrictively licensed work even if I could get it gratis with basic usage permission. Today, all of us can be readers, a press, a distributor etc., so I need to establish and maintain for myself and others the ability to work with such material, especially when it comes to software or other works of practical use (works of entertainment don't have to be handled that strict). Additionally, the rules of digital economy tell that the production of works is of some cost, but copying and distributing them is not. Therefore in the long term, one might charge for the former, not for the latter (except optionally for convenience or voluntarily, but never for artificially restricted access). That's my bit of further OT discussion ;-) No, honestly, I thought that some of the questions answered a second time were already answered in previous posts of this thread. From martienne's description, I hopefully understood correctly that the Swedish copyright law excludes works issued by the state from copyright protection and doesn't only ensure that Swedish citizens can get a printed and electronic copy of a document while still distribution stays prohibited. In German copyright law, there's such an exception, because otherwise the state could refer to copyright protection for official documents in court cases, which would be highly impractical. Unfortunately, the German state hasn't issued a bible translation yet... From what I understand, martienne claims that bibelsällskapet.se lies or at least misinforms, which isn't too uncommon for so called “Christian” publishing houses, but if not, potentially illegal distribution already takes place via pastebin. Instead of a Scientology case, I first remembered the Piratbyrån/The Pirate Bay case in terms of Swedish mentality regarding copyright, so that's interesting to hear about the Scientology case associated with trade sanctions. As Tex2002ans referred to the technical discussion, I didn't mentioned it yet, but I obtained the Bible 2000 text from that website by using the “Save As”, “Website, complete” feature of my version of Mozilla Firefox, which saves the displayed website just as it is currently loaded, including all elements that got inserted by AJAX or other JavaScript. But as it was pointed out, the URL in the JavaScript of that page is an even better source to retrieve the text from. Last edited by skreutzer; 07-25-2014 at 04:09 PM. |
07-25-2014, 04:45 PM | #50 | ||
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,466
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
Quote:
As far as the rest of it: the offended poster, being new here, doesn't understand that most of the experienced people here aren't simply writing to HER. They are writing for all the others who will come along and read the material, 99.99% of whom won't be in the unique position of arguing that they're entitled to take the material (which claims to have a price tag) through some arcana in Swedish law. And, really, if our free help is so reprehensibly overburdened with moralizing and debate, then perhaps she'll be happier looking elsewhere for it. Personally, when I'm asking experienced people in any field--technical, whatever--to donate their time to me, I consider their comments, advice, input, etc., part of the price I pay in lieu of paying money in consulting fees for that time. I mean, GOSH...if I were to whinge and complain that someone or some people giving freely of their technical expertise had the unmitigated gall and nerve to impose their thoughts upon me as well, I'd have to wonder at what point I became such an ungrateful little s**t. ...and, having managed to avoid the entire copyright debate in this thread throughout, I'm done here. Hitch |
||
Advert | |
|
07-25-2014, 06:16 PM | #51 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 7,452
Karma: 7185064
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW
|
Quote:
|
|
07-25-2014, 07:24 PM | #52 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,466
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
And nobody here "sermonized." It was a simple discussion. It's hardly secret that folks have strong feelings about DRM, (as in, your signature block, which certainly broadcasts YOUR "sermonizing" about it--does that mean that you're not very nice?), and, as I said: most of the posters--and those most helpful to her--certainly had every right to speak to the other people who will come along and read the thread. Many posters here at MR don't even understand how DRM works. Having a perfectly civil (for a change) discussion about her particular situation was one of the more useful I've seen. Hitch |
|
07-26-2014, 02:57 AM | #53 | |
Imperfect Perfectionist
Posts: 483
Karma: 724664
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ølstykke, Denmark
Device: none
|
Quote:
But now we're going way of on a tangent ... again Regards, Kim |
|
07-26-2014, 06:16 AM | #54 |
Software Developer
Posts: 190
Karma: 89000
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Device: PocketBook Touch Lux 3
|
@elibrarian:
As Hitch correctly pointed out, it is within your right to license your results as they are your own creation restrictively, so depending on your licensing terms, I might have to wait those 70 years after your death (or even longer, if copyright protection time gets extended again instead of significantly reduced) if you exclude some of the digital freedoms from your licensing, which I potentially might want or need. I guess I will be dead before it goes into public domain. So do you publish the transcribed work without endorsements (annotations, editorial work) or only with them, so it would be quite hard to extract the original, unchanged text without doing a proofreading again? Last edited by skreutzer; 07-26-2014 at 06:24 AM. |
07-26-2014, 06:57 AM | #55 |
Color me gone
Posts: 2,089
Karma: 1445295
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Oregon Coast
Device: PRS-300
|
The point of mentioning copyright is to make sure that the person asking the question is aware of the issue and of the limitations of making personal copies. Most posters don't have legal training and new ones particularly are not aware of how very arcane if not downright stupid and greedy some of the copyright law is.
But it is the law and the managers of the forum don't want to run afoul of it for practical and/or personal reasons. Most people here just want to make sure Mr. New Poster or Miss New Poster don't go spreading their new found wealth around the internet and end up with Giant Megacompany coming after them for $50,000 for the privilege of using the copyrighted work, whether it is worth that or not. Ditto on the fonts issue, Times New Roman, Arial, etc that are everywhere but they are NOT free. |
07-26-2014, 07:39 AM | #56 | |
Imperfect Perfectionist
Posts: 483
Karma: 724664
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ølstykke, Denmark
Device: none
|
Quote:
But as I've said, derivative work has no impact on the copyright status of the original work, and anyone can make their own editions of the original as they please. You may not have to wait 70 years to read my editions (at present all of them can be borrowed via the public libraries in Denmark), but you will have to wait 70 years to copy them to your neighbour, so to speak. I don't find that unreasonable, except 70 years after my death is idiotic (actually I don't care what happens after I'm dead, and my grandchildren will have to fight their own battles without my economic subsidy). But I find this discussion a little esoteric. I publish primarily to make the books accessible to readers, which does not automatically or necessarily entitles anyone to spread these editions all over the internet. I know your views from other threads, and I guess I'll never win you over, just as you won't me - that probably makes me a nasty criminal in your view so for now, just let us agree that we disagree on some points. Regards, Kim |
|
07-27-2014, 02:06 AM | #57 |
Ex-Helpdesk Junkie
Posts: 19,421
Karma: 85397180
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity
Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)
|
Personally, I did find a lot of the copyright schmoozing in this thread to be a little repetitive, so I understand where the OP is coming from -- while at the same time recognizing that, to an MR veteran, this kind of stuff should be expected, and that no one meant to be or sound accusatory.
So. All in all, the finest of MobileRead traditions. |
07-28-2014, 05:57 AM | #58 |
.~^пиратка^~.
Posts: 238
Karma: 14000
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ask NSA...
Device: Onyx Boox M92
|
ok - but the situation with e-librarian is different because Denmark is small country probably with a poorly developed e-book market. What elibrarian is talking about is specific to Denmark which none of us know about.
Likewise the situation with my Swedish example was pretty unique as well. Had this been an English major Bible edition, it would already be ripped a long time ago, and the vendor would be selling it in various ebook formats. Neither was the case. I think most of us are looking at this from a perspective of living under Amazon dominance, or dominance of some other very large and profitable vendor. In the English speaking market, for example, almost all Bible texts actually are copyrighted and owned by profitable corporations like Zondervan and the like. ELibrarian's experiences are unique to his market where nobody else is active here, and he is clearly a bit of a pioneer. Clearly he knows the market and we don't, and he's performing a services that is in demand. I fear for Elibrarians business once Amazon make their entry into the DK market. Hopefully I'm wrong. They have got their eyes on Sweden, FYI Kim, and the Swedish publishers are shocked already by their tactics. The Swedish market for buying physical books online is really bad, to be honest, at least it was last time I tried it. I don't believe they put DRM on ebooks though, which is nice. But at least the money you pay stays in the country and goes to local people. I am willing to put up with less efficient service rather than than have a ruthless American corporation dominate the market, not pay tax and move their money abroad, which is how Amazon operates in Europe (they tax in Luxembourg, how convenient). The Swedish vendors will get there eventually. Last edited by martienne; 07-28-2014 at 05:59 AM. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why use html formatting with kindle? | kateharp | Amazon Kindle | 30 | 06-18-2011 10:37 AM |
Best example of HTML formatting for Kindle??? | delphidb96 | Amazon Kindle | 13 | 02-15-2011 06:22 AM |
Troubleshooting HTML formatting for K3 | SmeagolRO | Amazon Kindle | 1 | 11-29-2010 12:56 PM |
HTML formatting | MarcusStringer | ePub | 17 | 04-06-2010 11:23 AM |
HTML formatting | john folkard | Calibre | 1 | 08-18-2009 10:15 AM |