Global warming or not? - Page 39

Joebill · 07-11-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I have no doubt at all that the world is warming up and that it's our fault. Whether we have the time and political will to do anything about it is doubtful.

Well, during the Jurasic, it was much warmer than it is now. No humans around to cause that heating.

carld · 07-11-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebill

Well, during the Jurasic, it was much warmer than it is now. No humans around to cause that heating.

I'm not sure how that's relevant. No one is claiming that global warming is always caused by humans, obviously not. However, that doesn't change the facts of our own era.

SameOldStory · 07-11-2010, 08:07 PM

carld, in my last post I did have a solution. It's near the bottom of the page right above your first post. I'm too old for it to matter but you may be in a position to make a statement to the world.

It doesn't cost anything, and No politics are involved. We, each one of us, just has to do our part and in one generation the whole world will be better.

Are you willing to do your part in the fight for population control and Global Warming?

YOU CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE IF YOU ARE WILLING!

SameOldStory · 07-11-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebill

Well, during the Jurasic, it was much warmer than it is now. No humans around to cause that heating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I'm not sure how that's relevant. No one is claiming that global warming is always caused by humans, obviously not. However, that doesn't change the facts of our own era.

Some people do have an in interest in propagating "global warming". Some people honestly believe that it will be a major problem, and that it'll happen soon. And there are people with whom it is a religion, and those opposed to that belief are pure evil. You saw that type of faith during the Inquisition.

Al Gore said that the debate was over.
Joseph Goebbels said - If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

Check out the stuff on the internet. If they scream too much then they’re probably fanatics. Ignore them.

But do look at the arguments that support BOTH SIDES. And then use your best judgment.

Read this - #549 and this #568

And this - Geologic evidence of the cause of global warming and cooling—are we heading for Global catastrophe?

Don J. Easterbrook, Professor Emeritus - Resume

carld · 07-11-2010, 08:51 PM

I've already looked at the scientific evidence, and the best evidence says that global warming is happening and that it's our fault. Also, I don't think labeling global warming as a religion and references to the inquisition and Goebbels adds anything to the discussion, nor do I expect a site called globalwarminghoax to present me with truthful and unbiased scientific information.

nekokami · 07-11-2010, 09:16 PM

My comments about disease included a remark about water quality and shortages, which are directly related to climate change, as weather patterns shift causing droughts and subsequent nutrition problems and starvation.

I don't think the amount of warming we'll see in my lifetime (I'm 43 now) will drown us all out, or burn us to a crisp, or anything so dramatic. But we're seeing signs where I live of climate change-- maple trees dying out further south where they've lived for many centuries, birds migrating later in the fall and earlier in the spring, etc. We're seeing more storms here and elsewhere, and greater variation in rainfall, leading to atypical floods in some places and droughts in others. These changes have an affect on the food chain, which ultimately affects all of us.

I strongly suspect that a lot of what gets reported as "racial" violence is in fact resource conflict, especially in the mid-east.

I've checked information sources presenting both sides of the argument, and while certainly the "religious" extremes at both ends can be dismissed, the evidence looks pretty conclusive to me, and to most actual climate scientists (I am not one). There are certainly people motivated to commit fraud at both ends of the scale, as well, for their own personal gain. But on balance, the data are collected and analyzed by people who could just as easily be working in some other area of research making just as much money (working scientists don't get paid that much). And again, the data itself speaks pretty clearly. At least to me.

kennyc · 07-11-2010, 09:27 PM

I agree. If you look past the hype on both sides and examine the evidence presented by the core and majority of scientists working in the climate field it is quite clear that the evidence indicates that humanity is responsible for causing a rise in average global temperature and it is something we should address immediately if not sooner.

SameOldStory · 07-11-2010, 10:53 PM

Of all the things that I would like to say, I realize that none of it will matter.

Pointing to other sources of information is pointless. If the information doesn't come from a pro-global warming site it is "biased ". If it does come from an approved site then it is THE TRUTH.

There are problems with the data collection. There is data that is ignored because it is inconsistent with the established view that global warming is man made.

nekokami. I feel like I know you a little better. We do agree on somethings, and probably never will on a few others. I leave this subject with greater appreciation of you, though. Thank you.

kennyc. I may disagree with you on this, but I can respect your viewpoint. A very long time ago I was more like you are now. Events and inclinations have taken me down a different path.

Thanks for the ride folks. It’s been fun.

carld · 07-11-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

Of all the things that I would like to say, I realize that none of it will matter.

Pointing to other sources of information is pointless. If the information doesn't come from a pro-global warming site it is "biased ". If it does come from an approved site then it is THE TRUTH.

I assume it's biased when it comes from an organization with a predetermined point of view, yes. I think that's entirely fair.

GeoffC · 07-12-2010, 05:52 AM

All the energy generated by mankind, has to go somewhere - very little goes out into space - it can't disappear or dissipate. The whole issue is complicated and is unlikely to be resolved until we fully understand all the mechanisms that make up our environment and the way it is linked and inter-related.

We shall return to this topic/thread in 50 years time - and I bet we'll be no closer to the answers than we are now.

Joebill · 07-12-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I'm not sure how that's relevant. No one is claiming that global warming is always caused by humans, obviously not. However, that doesn't change the facts of our own era.

Well, I have seen a number of folks on telly who do claim it. Kinda silly, as we don't know for certain what is causing it. And most of the greenhouse gases come from termites and cows.

WT Sharpe · 07-16-2010, 06:47 PM

Greg Craven presenting a new way to think about the debate.

kennyc · 07-16-2010, 06:59 PM

Great find Tom!

WT Sharpe · 07-16-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Great find Tom!

He frames the entire debate in terms of risk-management.

kennyc · 07-19-2010, 07:12 AM

June Was the Fourth Consecutive Month That Was Warmest on Record

ScienceDaily (July 18, 2010) — Each month NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) releases two assessments, one national and one global, of the previous month's climate. These reports include information on the temperature and precipitation levels experienced nationally and globally, providing useful information about these important climate variables in historical perspective......

Full Article:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0718233311.htm

View Poll Results: Global warming or not, man-made or not?
It's all our fault! And we should do domething about it.	85	40.09%
It's all our fault, but it is too late to mend it.	10	4.72%
It is happening, but not our fault. (part of the planets natural cycle)	52	24.53%
Don't believe in Global warming, it's all a fabrication.	36	16.98%
The blue fish, in the sea (which isn't rising)	10	4.72%
Non of the above...	19	8.96%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

07-11-2010, 08:07 PM	#573
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	carld, in my last post I did have a solution. It's near the bottom of the page right above your first post. I'm too old for it to matter but you may be in a position to make a statement to the world. It doesn't cost anything, and No politics are involved. We, each one of us, just has to do our part and in one generation the whole world will be better. Are you willing to do your part in the fight for population control and Global Warming? YOU CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE IF YOU ARE WILLING! Last edited by SameOldStory; 07-11-2010 at 08:41 PM.

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07-11-2010, 08:51 PM	#575
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I've already looked at the scientific evidence, and the best evidence says that global warming is happening and that it's our fault. Also, I don't think labeling global warming as a religion and references to the inquisition and Goebbels adds anything to the discussion, nor do I expect a site called globalwarminghoax to present me with truthful and unbiased scientific information.

07-11-2010, 09:16 PM	#576
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	My comments about disease included a remark about water quality and shortages, which are directly related to climate change, as weather patterns shift causing droughts and subsequent nutrition problems and starvation. I don't think the amount of warming we'll see in my lifetime (I'm 43 now) will drown us all out, or burn us to a crisp, or anything so dramatic. But we're seeing signs where I live of climate change-- maple trees dying out further south where they've lived for many centuries, birds migrating later in the fall and earlier in the spring, etc. We're seeing more storms here and elsewhere, and greater variation in rainfall, leading to atypical floods in some places and droughts in others. These changes have an affect on the food chain, which ultimately affects all of us. I strongly suspect that a lot of what gets reported as "racial" violence is in fact resource conflict, especially in the mid-east. I've checked information sources presenting both sides of the argument, and while certainly the "religious" extremes at both ends can be dismissed, the evidence looks pretty conclusive to me, and to most actual climate scientists (I am not one). There are certainly people motivated to commit fraud at both ends of the scale, as well, for their own personal gain. But on balance, the data are collected and analyzed by people who could just as easily be working in some other area of research making just as much money (working scientists don't get paid that much). And again, the data itself speaks pretty clearly. At least to me.

07-11-2010, 09:27 PM	#577
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,918 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	I agree. If you look past the hype on both sides and examine the evidence presented by the core and majority of scientists working in the climate field it is quite clear that the evidence indicates that humanity is responsible for causing a rise in average global temperature and it is something we should address immediately if not sooner.

07-11-2010, 10:53 PM	#578
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Of all the things that I would like to say, I realize that none of it will matter. Pointing to other sources of information is pointless. If the information doesn't come from a pro-global warming site it is "biased ". If it does come from an approved site then it is THE TRUTH. There are problems with the data collection. There is data that is ignored because it is inconsistent with the established view that global warming is man made. nekokami. I feel like I know you a little better. We do agree on somethings, and probably never will on a few others. I leave this subject with greater appreciation of you, though. Thank you. kennyc. I may disagree with you on this, but I can respect your viewpoint. A very long time ago I was more like you are now. Events and inclinations have taken me down a different path. Thanks for the ride folks. It’s been fun.

07-12-2010, 05:52 AM	#580
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	All the energy generated by mankind, has to go somewhere - very little goes out into space - it can't disappear or dissipate. The whole issue is complicated and is unlikely to be resolved until we fully understand all the mechanisms that make up our environment and the way it is linked and inter-related. We shall return to this topic/thread in 50 years time - and I bet we'll be no closer to the answers than we are now.

07-16-2010, 06:47 PM	#582
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,072 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	Greg Craven presenting a new way to think about the debate.

07-16-2010, 06:59 PM	#583
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,918 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Great find Tom!

07-19-2010, 07:12 AM	#585
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,918 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	June Was the Fourth Consecutive Month That Was Warmest on Record ScienceDaily (July 18, 2010) — Each month NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) releases two assessments, one national and one global, of the previous month's climate. These reports include information on the temperature and precipitation levels experienced nationally and globally, providing useful information about these important climate variables in historical perspective...... Full Article: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0718233311.htm

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