Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Bittybye

Just to add my 2 cents in both religious people and atheists are foolish. Blind faith in in either case is foolish.
For religion, either god has a sick sense of humor or just doesn't care about his/her/their children anymore. Any thing(one) that allows people to use his name as a hammer to beat others down or justify murder is not something I would worship.
For atheists, how could you possibly know if something/one as powerful as a god/goddess/gods exist? Science can't measure a lot of things, what makes you think you could measure the divine.

Ah the middle way... aye? Wrong. Ones correct the others not.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

You forgot to provide evidence for your claim.

Recap:

Evidence any gods exist: zero.

Evidence the specific god you were taught to believe in exists: zero.

You don't know that this god exists - you merely believe it. Every single time you misrepresent your beliefs as facts, you are acting dishonestly

I gave you evidence.. you just didn't like it.

Recap: Sweevo needs to pray.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Because its real... And warriors from Atlantis hiding in Crystal skulls... aint.

Terrazoids, putting words into my mouth isn't a reasonable way to debate. At no point have I or anyone here suggested that Western Buddhism involves warriors from Atlantis hiding in Crystal skulls.

Western Buddhism, particulary as espoused by Thich Nhat Han, builds on the philosophical heart of ancient Buddhism.

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Because its real...

Let's look at that more closely.

The reality of the Christian deity is a matter of faith.

The reality of the truths in Thich Nhat Han's Buddhism are built into the teachings themselves. Read the books and reflect on the talks. You'll find that it's philosophy. At no point is there a call for you to make a faith-based leap into the supernatural. The morality unfolds from the basic principles.

One of the basic teachings of Buddhism is that you should question all teachings. Including Buddhist teachings. There is no coercion. There is no pulpit.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

You forgot to provide evidence for your claim.

Recap:

Evidence any gods exist: zero.

Evidence the specific god you were taught to believe in exists: zero.

You don't know that this god exists - you merely believe it. Every single time you misrepresent your beliefs as facts, you are acting dishonestly

common now... take with a spoonful of sugar...

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Terrazoids, putting words into my mouth isn't a reasonable way to debate. At no point have I or anyone here suggested that Western Buddhism involves warriors from Atlantis hiding in Crystal skulls.

Western Buddhism, particulary as espoused by Thich Nhat Han, builds on the philosophical heart of ancient Buddhism.



Let's look at that more closely.

The reality of the Christian deity is a matter of faith.

The reality of the truths in Thich Nhat Han's Buddhism are built into the teachings themselves. Read the books and reflect on the talks. You'll find that it's philosophy. At no point is there a call for you to make a faith-based leap into the supernatural. The morality unfolds from the basic principles.

One of the basic teachings of Buddhism is that you should question all teachings. Including Buddhist teachings. There is no coercion. There is no pulpit.

Graham

Thats just it... a waste of time... sitting around in a circle wondering whether things are real or not...

I like my meat and potatoes REAL.... Thats just the way I like my dinner..

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Bittybye

..
For atheists, how could you possibly know if something/one as powerful as a god/goddess/gods exist? Science can't measure a lot of things, what makes you think you could measure the divine.

If that power does not make itself evident, then it is irrelevant.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Bittybye

For atheists, how could you possibly know if something/one as powerful as a god/goddess/gods exist? Science can't measure a lot of things, what makes you think you could measure the divine.

A lot is claimed about the power of prayer - presumably that could be measured scientifically.

I recently heard a story of Anatole France being shown around Lourdes by a Catholic friend. He was shown a pile of crutches that had been discarded there; "Not many wooden legs I notice" was France's observation.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I gave you evidence.. you just didn't like it.

I must have missed it. Would you mind repeating it?

Note: logical fallacies are fallacies, not evidence.

[terrazoids]

Now I know I'm not the only defender of the faith out there.... People shouldn't be afraid to stand up for what they believe against these atheists. The atheists are very vocal right now, but they aint as clever as they pretend. Stand up folks... shout out what you know is right. What the atheists don't have in there arguments is fervor... passion... Theres is a gloomy dark, and grim world... There stuck in a cave searching for the light while the damp slowly eats away at there immortal souls. I pray for them....

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Thats just it... a waste of time... sitting around in a circle wondering whether things are real or not...

Yes, that would be a waste of time. But that's not remotely what those Buddhists are doing with their time.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

I must have missed it. Would you mind repeating it?

Note: logical fallacies are fallacies, not evidence.

Go into the near death research... Thats fascinating and should interest you.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

A lot is claimed about the power of prayer - presumably that could be measured scientifically.

I recently heard a story of Anatole France being shown around Lourdes by a Catholic friend. He was shown a pile of crutches that had been discarded there; "Not many wooden legs I notice" was France's observation.

(from Skepdic: )

To its eternal discredit, the Roman Catholic Church investigated Soubirous's claims for four years before approving devotion to Our Lady of Lourdes. Since then, the Church has validated 67 miracles at Lourdes (of the thousands that have been reported*) and canonized the peasant girl. (Her body, which is on display, is alleged to be incorruptible, but the face and hands, which look so lifelike, are made of wax.) It is estimated that in recent years about 5 million pilgrims a year visit the shrine at Lourdes. Over the past 150 years, some 200 million people have made the pilgrimage. For those who care, that's a success rate of .0000335% or 1 out of every 3 million. Furthermore, since 1947 anyone claiming a miraculous cure has to go before a medical board. "From 1947 to 1990, only 1,000 cures were claimed and only 56 were recognized in that time, averaging 1.3 cures a year, against 57 a year before 1914." Since 1978, there have been only four recognized cures.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Go into the near death research... Thats fascinating and should interest you.

Or you could provide the evidence that you claim exists.

Strange how you discard the near death experiences of believers of other religions, but expect us to accept yours.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Yes, that would be a waste of time. But that's not remotely what those Buddhists are doing with their time.

Graham

Buts that just what you described. Why doesn't father Han get on with it and just tell people the plain honest to god truth as he understands it, as opposed to trying to sneakily change peoples opinions with tricky discussions. Thats what I meant by not letting him out of my sight. We got a word for people like that where I come from...

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Or you could provide the evidence that you claim exists.

Strange how you discard the near death experiences of believers of other religions, but expect us to accept yours.

I'm sure the experiences are consistent. Just that they've misinterpreted the facts of the matter. In fact there are fascinating examples of people from other religions going through a near death experience and then CHANGING their religion afterwards, based on what they saw.