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Old 11-21-2016, 04:50 AM   #496
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I think you're making the same mistake that some traditional publishers (including RIAA and MPAA) keep making. The best way to make a profit from digital content isn't by selling digital content. It's by selling everything else around it.
If however you are, lets say, a book publisher/author/programmer the digital content is what you are trying to sell, there isn't anything around it, with a few notable exceptions the merchandising is non-existent, the best selling book on Amazon UK right now is by Katerina Diamond, Never heard of her BTW , but I'm pretty sure the number of people wanting a T-Shirt is close to zero.

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My go-to example is web comics. Web comic artists give away what traditional publishers would consider to be their products. Instead, web comic artists make their incomes from merchandise related to their comics and, more recently, on-site advertising and, more recently still, crowd-funding services like Patreon.
Then they are selling merchandise not comics, and the comics are advertising.

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My second example is Netflix. They clearly don't sell content. They sell delivery of content, originally DVD rentals and now mostly streaming content over the Internet. That is to say, they sell convenience.
Subscription service, renting not selling. And they are selling access to the content not convenience (Watch sales tank if they stop adding new content).

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My third example is Baen Books. Baen, through the Baen Free Library and the Baen CDs, operates a hybrid model: give some content away with few restrictions and encouragement to redistribute, and traditionally sell the rest.
Samplers & Freebies, essentially promotional content to convince you to buy their digital content. Also the CD's have now stopped as more people have switched over to digital from paper.

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So yes, you can make a profit by giving content away, but it requires a different view of what content is in order to do it.
It doesn't, when your only product is the content you can't give it away.
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:15 AM   #497
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Wasn't 3 most business must be done in Massachusetts?
If the publisher had access to the sales records, it would be easily disproved unless they only sold the books in Massachusetts.
I don't think sales records would be relevant to Section 11, Rule 3 if it is a contract dispute between an author and a publisher. It's the actions surrounding the contract and its terms that matter.
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:36 AM   #498
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Also the CD's have now stopped as more people have switched over to digital from paper.
Yes, new CD's haven't been issued since 2010 so it's been some time (1635 Eastern Front).
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:47 AM   #499
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Never heard of her BTW , but I'm pretty sure the number of people wanting a T-Shirt is close to zero.
I'm not familiar with her but I do know that Steven King and Charlie Stross, to name two, sell tie-in merchandise so yes, there definitely is a market for such things.

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Then they are selling merchandise not comics, and the comics are advertising.
Yup. They view content differently from how traditional publishers view content.

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Subscription service, renting not selling. And they are selling access to the content not convenience (Watch sales tank if they stop adding new content).
I still maintain that it's convenience. Netflix put Blockbuster out of business by being more convenient. Netflix killed HD-DVD and nearly killed Blu-ray by being more convenient.

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Samplers & Freebies, essentially promotional content to convince you to buy their digital content. Also the CD's have now stopped as more people have switched over to digital from paper.
True. It's difficult to distribute physical media with digital content. Markets change. Survival requires adaptation.

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It doesn't, when your only product is the content you can't give it away.
Cory Doctorow and others have repeatedly disproved this assertion.
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:20 PM   #500
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I still maintain that it's convenience. Netflix put Blockbuster out of business by being more convenient. Netflix killed HD-DVD and nearly killed Blu-ray by being more convenient.
I think convenience is a big part of it. There's also selection. Netflix has a far larger selection than did Blockbuster. At Blockbuster you could always find something you wanted to watch. At Netflix you can watch almost anything you feel like.

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Old 11-21-2016, 02:38 PM   #501
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I still maintain that it's convenience. Netflix put Blockbuster out of business by being more convenient. Netflix killed HD-DVD and nearly killed Blu-ray by being more convenient.
Okay I buy them killing Blockbuster, or at least having a big part in it with help from other streaming services, on-demand and RedBox, but how did it kill HD-DVD? HD-DVD died in early 2008 when Netflix streaming was in its infancy (until January of 2008 streaming wasn't unlimited). If anything the combination of Blu-Ray and users sticking with regular DVD killed HD-DVD. As for Nexflix nearly Killing Blu-Ray again not seeing it (unless you have some numbers?). Now if you want to argue that streaming in general has hurt physical media sales in general there is no doubt about that, but it's far from dire and bandwidth hogging UHD content has given physical sales a bit of a boost I believe.
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:48 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by ratinox View Post
I don't think sales records would be relevant to Section 11, Rule 3 if it is a contract dispute between an author and a publisher. It's the actions surrounding the contract and its terms that matter.
Most of the actions have to be done in Massachusetts. I am assuming the contract says something about sales. Therefore, yes the sales records would be important.
The only way they wouldn't be is if the defendant didn't do something that was in the contract.

Oh and proving financial hurt is very hard to prove and yes it is on the plaintiff to prove the defendant hurt him.

Oh and authors have an even harder time with contract disputes for the pure and simple fact of authors know how to read.
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #503
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Okay I buy them killing Blockbuster, or at least having a big part in it with help from other streaming services, on-demand and RedBox, but how did it kill HD-DVD? HD-DVD died in early 2008 when Netflix streaming was in its infancy (until January of 2008 streaming wasn't unlimited). If anything the combination of Blu-Ray and users sticking with regular DVD killed HD-DVD. As for Nexflix nearly Killing Blu-Ray again not seeing it (unless you have some numbers?). Now if you want to argue that streaming in general has hurt physical media sales in general there is no doubt about that, but it's far from dire and bandwidth hogging UHD content has given physical sales a bit of a boost I believe.
The last several blu-rays I bought included digital content.
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Old 11-21-2016, 03:09 PM   #504
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The last several blu-rays I bought included digital content.
Yes, digital copies are somewhat standard especially for new releases, but that has nothing to do with Netflix supposedly "nearly killing Blu-Ray". I have no doubt studios would in many ways be happy to go digital only, but streaming isn't as high quality as physical at this point and while that doesn't matter for the masses it does matter for some so for now physical discs have their place and they include a digital copy as a bonus and to get folks into the digital streaming environment.
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Old 11-21-2016, 03:30 PM   #505
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Okay I buy them killing Blockbuster, or at least having a big part in it with help from other streaming services, on-demand and RedBox, but how did it kill HD-DVD? HD-DVD died in early 2008 when Netflix streaming was in its infancy (until January of 2008 streaming wasn't unlimited).
Late 2007 saw Netflix's streaming business growing (also Apple and Hulu), Blu-ray struggling, and HD-DVD stagnating. It was obvious that streaming was going to win the high-def war. Toshiba threw in the towel rather than continuing to fight an expensive format war they knew they could not win. This did nothing to improve Blu-ray sales; in fact, Blu-ray sales plummeted in early 2008:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...-been-delayed/

Netflix was synonymous with streaming for the majority at that point in time. I'm sure that Apple and Hulu contributed to the end of the HD format war but they were still relatively small names in the field compared to Netflix. That was the big name.

So yeah. Netflix killed HD-DVD. The only reason Blu-ray didn't get wiped out, too, is because Sony is frickin' huge.
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Old 11-21-2016, 03:32 PM   #506
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Most of the actions have to be done in Massachusetts. I am assuming the contract says something about sales. Therefore, yes the sales records would be important.
The only way they wouldn't be is if the defendant didn't do something that was in the contract.

Oh and proving financial hurt is very hard to prove and yes it is on the plaintiff to prove the defendant hurt him.

Oh and authors have an even harder time with contract disputes for the pure and simple fact of authors know how to read.
Perhaps, but like I wrote before: that's something for the courts to decide. There are no absolute, universal answers to these questions.
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Old 11-21-2016, 03:56 PM   #507
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Late 2007 saw Netflix's streaming business growing (also Apple and Hulu), Blu-ray struggling, and HD-DVD stagnating. It was obvious that streaming was going to win the high-def war. Toshiba threw in the towel rather than continuing to fight an expensive format war they knew they could not win. This did nothing to improve Blu-ray sales; in fact, Blu-ray sales plummeted in early 2008:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...-been-delayed/

Netflix was synonymous with streaming for the majority at that point in time. I'm sure that Apple and Hulu contributed to the end of the HD format war but they were still relatively small names in the field compared to Netflix. That was the big name.

So yeah. Netflix killed HD-DVD. The only reason Blu-ray didn't get wiped out, too, is because Sony is frickin' huge.
Looks to me (from the link) like you're looking at sales of hardware not media/movies. From a time when Blu-Ray was still more of a niche product for early adopters and player costs were high. If anything hurt Blu-Ray at that time it was folks not feeling the need to upgrade from their current DVD tech.

Netflix wasn't that big of a name for streaming in early 2008. As I said they didn't even start offering unlimited streaming until January of 2008 (and HD-DVD was all but dead already then) before that subscribers only got an hour of content per dollar spent on their Netflix DVD subscription. Most people didn't even know what streaming was yet at that time. Hulu didn't even launch until March of 2008.
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:34 PM   #508
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Worth bearing in mind, though, that (certainly in the U.K. - don't know about elsewhere) there are still many rural areas in which people can't get fast enough broadband speeds to permit high definition (or even standard definition) video streaming. You need about 3Mbits/sec for HD streaming; a friend of mine can only get about 0.5Mbit/sec broadband (he lives right at the limit of the line length ADSL will work over).
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:47 PM   #509
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Looks to me (from the link) like you're looking at sales of hardware not media/movies. From a time when Blu-Ray was still more of a niche product for early adopters and player costs were high. If anything hurt Blu-Ray at that time it was folks not feeling the need to upgrade from their current DVD tech.
Blu-ray launched mid 2006 with PS3 being released in November 2006. Happy 10th birthday, PS3 . I have a hard time swallowing the idea that a world-wide, mainstream consumer console, which Sony also positioned as their flagship Blu-ray player, was a niche product for early adopters. Sony certainly did not see it that way and they didn't market PS3 and Blu-ray that way.

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Netflix wasn't that big of a name for streaming in early 2008. As I said they didn't even start offering unlimited streaming until January of 2008 (and HD-DVD was all but dead already then) before that subscribers only got an hour of content per dollar spent on their Netflix DVD subscription. Most people didn't even know what streaming was yet at that time. Hulu didn't even launch until March of 2008.
You are correct and I am mistaken about Hulu's timing. And Apple introduced rentals in January 2008. These make Netflix the only name in video streaming during HD-DVD's downfall and Blu-ray's failure to gain significant traction.

The timing also closely follows the breakup of the LCD price fixing conspiracy. The resultant drop in HDTV prices combined with the US conversion from NTSC to ATSC (and cable companies converting to QAM) made HDTVs and HD video desirable things among US consumers. While DVD rentals were still Netflix's core business, they started pushing the conversion to streaming, and they pushed that conversion very hard. Within 2.5-3 years? Streaming became the core business and they started looking to sell or spin off the DVD rental service.
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Old 11-21-2016, 06:50 PM   #510
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Blu-ray launched mid 2006 with PS3 being released in November 2006. Happy 10th birthday, PS3 . I have a hard time swallowing the idea that a world-wide, mainstream consumer console, which Sony also positioned as their flagship Blu-ray player, was a niche product for early adopters. Sony certainly did not see it that way and they didn't market PS3 and Blu-ray that way.
At least in the places I haunted back then I remember the PS3 being marketed with blu-ray as a secondary feature and it was certainly not Sony's flagship player by a long shot (that would have been the BDP-S1). It started out as more of a hey get this to play awesome games on, oh and by the way it also has the added benefit of being able to play blu-ray movies. A way to try and get the masses into their new format. It just turned out that the PS3 was a very good BR player and it did more and was cheaper than the dedicated player so it was the player that many started with. Not to say the PS3 was a niche product, but blu-ray itself, as a movie format, was at first very much a niche or enthusiast format much like Laser Disc was (although Sony was hoping it would take off as quickly and thoroughly as DVD too over from VHS), even some hard core theater hobbyists didn't jump right away due the the format wars.

Even in 2016 there are plenty of folks that are happy to play low rez DVD's and have no desire to upgrade to blu-ray (although blu-ray now outsells DVD). It wasn't until 2008 however that all major studios even started releasing movies on blu-ray (Universal & Paramount being the last).
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