The Vent and Rant Thread

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by Laz116

I think it's a sound principle of the law only to punish the actions that a person HAS done

Originally Posted by Laz116

So you have given up the notion of a fair trial conducted by the state.

Unfortunately, whilst I suspect many, or maybe even most, people believe people should be punished for the crimes they have committed, there are an awful lot who don't see that justice being meted out by the law, and have long ago given up on the notion of a fair trial.

And I'm talking about in so-called "civilised" countries, too.

I'm not, at this point, going to list my own personal grievances with the law as it is and isn't applied in the UK, mostly because looking up all the relevant references will take too long - it's 02:45 here, I have work tomorrow and I should be going to sleep (minor rant - I've been feeling shattered all day, so how come at 11pm tonight I suddenly felt wide awake?). But if anyone's truly interested, I'll dig some of them up over the weekend.

The law, to quote a Dickens character, is an ass (no offence, Ricky).

[Laz116]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

Unfortunately, whilst I suspect many, or maybe even most, people believe people should be punished for the crimes they have committed, there are an awful lot who don't see that justice being meted out by the law, and have long ago given up on the notion of a fair trial.

And I'm talking about in so-called "civilised" countries, too.

I'm not, at this point, going to list my own personal grievances with the law as it is and isn't applied in the UK, mostly because looking up all the relevant references will take too long - it's 02:45 here, I have work tomorrow and I should be going to sleep (minor rant - I've been feeling shattered all day, so how come at 11pm tonight I suddenly felt wide awake?). But if anyone's truly interested, I'll dig some of them up over the weekend.

The law, to quote a Dickens character, is an ass (no offence, Ricky).

The law is by no means perfect. It's just infinitely better than everyone doing what they think is right (without having a moral justification for their point of view).

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by Laz116

The law is by no means perfect. It's just infinitely better than everyone doing what they think is right (without having a moral justification for their point of view).

Most people have a moral justification for their point of view though. Whether it tallies with anyone else's morals is another matter entirely. Morals are not absolute by any means.

And in some cases, people doing what they think is right is infinitely preferable to the law's take on things. Direct action can set precedents and change laws. And laws get made for very spurious reasons, including bowing to public pressure or politicians' prejudices irregardless of what expert evidence shows.

And on that note, I really am off to bed - I have to be up in just over 4 hours...

[Mindy]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

SNAP!

I snap'd first! Does this mean I win?
(or was it a new hand? I lost track)

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Mindy

... I lost track

No scalextric then?

[LazyScot]

Originally Posted by Mindy

I snap'd first! Does this mean I win?
(or was it a new hand? I lost track)

<WHISTLE> Umpire shows Am yellow card, and she is sin-binned for 15 minutes.

The Squid restarts with a perfect up and under; the Yeti charges through the opposition knocking them for out the way, takes a perfect catch and passes Hugo, who hands-off one of the three remaining defenders and throws a long, looping pass to Lefty who just manages an excellent catch runs over 50 yards before being caught and tackled by the last remaining defender, but manages to get the pass off to Adrian before going down. Adrian then storms through the uprights, swings round them four times, and scores. TRY!!!!!!!

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Patricia

I had to look this up and am now disgusted. I doubt whether this apparently psychopathic young woman is going to have an easy time in prison after what she has done.

Actually, I've read worse things... But it's something I just can't understand why people do it...

Originally Posted by Laz116

You see, I have great difficulty accepting such a disregard for human life you seem to endorse. It makes it very very difficult to tell the executioner apart from the criminal.

There's a huge cultural difference between the States and most Western European countries considering punishment. I doubt we'd ever come together in that respect (unless the States lay off the death penalty all together...)

Originally Posted by Laz116

First of all: There's a huge difference between torturing small animals and molesting or murdering children. I hope we can agree this far (don't know why you brought the latter into the discussion since it's hardly relevant to the case).

Actually, I don't agree on this. I think it's actually the same.

I have two cats and no kids. Should I be less devastated if somebody tortured and killed my cat than if somebody tortured and killed your child? An emotional attachment is an emotional attachment. The fact that it's "only" a cat or "only" a child, shouldn't matter at all.

I can understand RM when she says she'd like to see that person dead. There was a piece in the newspaper last week about abuse to a horse. The horse survived (luckily) but my first thought, too, was about some form of capital punishment to the one that had done it (actually, I wanted the same happen to the person as what he did to that horse...)

What bothers me is, that she doesn't see anything wrong with it... Apparently she has a dog she loves...

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by Laz116

Hopefully you aren't serious.

Culling the herd is one of the most terrifying expressions I have heard, when you're speaking of people.

Who gets to decide who's weak? The ones capitalism made strong? The ones lucky enough to have a happy childhood? Those in power?

On that note: This "Cheyenne" is not, as far as I can tell, a serial killer except in your own head. It's not like animal cruelty inevitably leads to murder.

You see, I have great difficulty accepting such a disregard for human life you seem to endorse. It makes it very very difficult to tell the executioner apart from the criminal.

Well, actually, there is a seriously strong correlation between childhood animal cruelty and antisocial acts, especially physical aggression and murder. That said, I agree with you that a disregard for any life is not a particularly civilized response. What has happened in this girl's life that she feels the need to behave so radically?

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

<WHISTLE> Umpire shows Am yellow card, and she is sin-binned for 15 minutes.

The Squid restarts with a perfect up and under; the Yeti charges through the opposition knocking them for out the way, takes a perfect catch and passes Hugo, who hands-off one of the three remaining defenders and throws a long, looping pass to Lefty who just manages an excellent catch runs over 50 yards before being caught and tackled by the last remaining defender, but manages to get the pass off to Adrian before going down. Adrian then storms through the uprights, swings round them four times, and scores. TRY!!!!!!!

Was it Colonol Mustard in the conservatory with a stick of rock?

[pshrynk]

Okay, now I can put the little guy on the teeter totter and move my mouse three spaces...

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

Most people have a moral justification for their point of view though. Whether it tallies with anyone else's morals is another matter entirely. Morals are not absolute by any means.

And in some cases, people doing what they think is right is infinitely preferable to the law's take on things. Direct action can set precedents and change laws. And laws get made for very spurious reasons, including bowing to public pressure or politicians' prejudices irregardless of what expert evidence shows.

And on that note, I really am off to bed - I have to be up in just over 4 hours...

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

<SNIP>

There's a huge cultural difference between the States and most Western European countries considering punishment. I doubt we'd ever come together in that respect (unless the States lay off the death penalty all together...)

<SNIP>

In recent years, the law has slid into exactly what Am was talking about. In many cases, it no longer punishes the guilty and protects the innocent. We've had our car's rear window smashed twice and a bedroom window broken and my daughter and I verbally abused any number of times by a Schizophrenic young man who's parents live in our neighborhood and we're not the only ones he has done this to. He's been arrested and taken to court several times in the last 5 years and every time, he has been given a slap on the wrist and released due to his medical condition. The law's view about our concerns is that we should be more sympathetic. I am, but that doesn't pay for fixing my broken windows. I know this is nowhere near as horrible as torturing, killing animals, but is indicative of what is happening in our judicial system.

I honestly don't think there is as big a cultural gap between the US and Western European countries as you think. We all want the same thing, punishment for the guilty (which is really the whole reason behind the justice system). I lived near a maximum security prison in Illinois where people like John Wayne Gacy were allowed to live and express themselves through art and have that art displayed in art shows and put up for sale, through years and years of appeals, all paid for with my tax dollars. He was never going to be rehabilitated. If he were released, he would have continued with his heinous acts. Why should he be allowed to live, even behind bars) when he had taken the lives of so many? I don't have an answer to capitol punishment, but I do know that if he had taken the life of someone I loved, I would have wanted him to die.

[LazyScot]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Okay, now I can put the little guy on the teeter totter and move my mouse three spaces...

"So now it's my turn to operate."

<Draws out card>.

"Writer's cramp, huh? How appropriate."

"hhhmmmm..... oooo.... ummmm..."

<bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt>

"DRAT!"

[pshrynk]

Wait a minnit! I already got six kids crammed into this car! How'm I supposed to fit another? Like the spinner, though...

[vivaldirules]

<Left foot - yellow>

Which left foot?

[yvanleterrible]

Cruelty to animals is nothing new but the ways of doing it have changed.

I was raised in the country side and witnessed many shocking scenes although not as cruel as this... person's deeds. Living as a slave to animals' needs can provoke peculiar behaviours in some people.

Then there is the "I dare you" thing with young people that leeds them to any bad habit.

In the distant past when people raised and harvested their own meat for food, the habit of killing became less intense to the conscience and abuse could set in. When transportation was achieved with the use of animals, some sort of road rage or impatience saw resolve in beating and mistreating animals.

Read old books and you see a lot of similar attitudes described as if in normal fashion.

People used to beat the crap out of dogs, horses and more sadly, wives and children. It was considered bleeping normal and encouraged by authorities!!!

The human animal is violent and its habits difficult to curb. Violence to any being is wrong and wishing bad things to any perpetrator comes from the same source as his crime.