What are you currently writing?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I decided to put the aforementioned essay up on my site... since almost no one ever reads what I put on my site, and out of those, no one ever comments on any of it.

Steve, I've continued to think about this essay as it particularly resonates with many of my personal thoughts, opinions, etc. In particular this take is from a digital media and society perspective, but I'm kinda thinking the actual sociology is bigger than that and the behaviors and beliefs described may apply to other areas of society as well.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Steve, I've continued to think about this essay as it particularly resonates with many of my personal thoughts, opinions, etc. In particular this take is from a digital media and society perspective, but I'm kinda thinking the actual sociology is bigger than that and the behaviors and beliefs described may apply to other areas of society as well.

Yes, they do. The marginalization of "anonymous humanity" vs the cooperative advances made by tight-knit communities and groups is evident in many areas... one has only to look. It is a major component of prejudice, rivalry and nationalism (extensions of tribal behavior). In short, it has probably been with us since we first started grouping together to survive... that is, a very long time.

And that's the worst part: As it is practically an instinctive trait, it is hard to overcome; which is why it's no surprise that it has become part and parcel of the behavioral aspects of the web, and by extension, of the e-book industry.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by TGS

A good decision because it's an essay well worth reading. My only question is, how is the debate is taken forward without getting bogged in the moribund and unhelpful dialogues you so eloquently describe. Not sure I like the idea of having a webcam pointing at me before I'm entitled to speak, but I can see where you are coming from in suggesting it.

The optimum thing would be, to debate something literally face-to-face with someone... but if geography doesn't allow that, a webcam is the next best thing. The point is, all parties should be fully exposed, so to speak, to each other and to all monitoring parties, to eliminate confusion, remove hidden motives and agendas, and level the playing field... and to make sure people will be personally held accountable for the things they say and do. In those situations, cooperation and negotiation tend to thrive.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by David.Niall.Wils

"Bookburning in the digital age" Wow...and now I have an idea in my head for a religious, computer hacking zealot who develops a book burning virus that infects any book deemed....unclean...

And I'm sitting here impatiently waiting for you to have written it so I can read it...

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

And I'm sitting here impatiently waiting for you to have written it so I can read it...

says he, with his own outstanding writing to catch up on ....

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

The optimum thing would be, to debate something literally face-to-face with someone... but if geography doesn't allow that, a webcam is the next best thing. The point is, all parties should be fully exposed, so to speak, to each other and to all monitoring parties, to eliminate confusion, remove hidden motives and agendas, and level the playing field... and to make sure people will be personally held accountable for the things they say and do. In those situations, cooperation and negotiation tend to thrive.

On the other hand, face-to-face debate also makes it easier for those who like to win by intimidation to do so. When all one has to argue with is words, it gives words more power.

[J. Dean]

...almost there....

[TGS]

Originally Posted by khalleron

On the other hand, face-to-face debate also makes it easier for those who like to win by intimidation to do so. When all one has to argue with is words, it gives words more power.

I was just thinking something like this when reading Steve's reply to me - then I scrolled down and you had written it khalleron! Whilst the dynamics of face-to-face dialogue avoid some of the problems that Steve speaks of in his essay, those very dynamics raise other problems to do with gender, ethnicity, age, disability and what one might be bundled under the heading of "personality", and the impact that they bring have on the nature of discussion. Whilst the anonymity provided by the internet might be abused by some, for others it is liberating and facilitates their participation. So, whilst I acknowledge the problem that Steve speaks of, I'm not sure the solution necessarily lies in the direction he indicates.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

There's nothing wrong with using words well. However, words can also hide meaning, twist logic and confuse issues, a fact known by some very experienced speakers... and politicians, and con men, and ad executives, and writers. Effective communication can exist without words... they are only one tool in our communications toolbox, and there are so many others we ignore when we use words exclusively, as the web prompts us to do.

Originally Posted by TGS

Whilst the dynamics of face-to-face dialogue avoid some of the problems that Steve speaks of in his essay, those very dynamics raise other problems to do with gender, ethnicity, age, disability and what one might be bundled under the heading of "personality", and the impact that they bring have on the nature of discussion. Whilst the anonymity provided by the internet might be abused by some, for others it is liberating and facilitates their participation. So, whilst I acknowledge the problem that Steve speaks of, I'm not sure the solution necessarily lies in the direction he indicates.

It sounds like you're (very politely) saying that people have prejudices, and anonymity removes the possibility of prejudice. If that's so, maintaining that anonymity would only serve to prolong those prejudices, when we ought to be working toward eliminating them... which successful cooperation often does.

[David.Niall.Wils]

Oh...I'll be writing it now...how could I not?

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

There's nothing wrong with using words well. However, words can also hide meaning, twist logic and confuse issues, a fact known by some very experienced speakers... and politicians, and con men, and ad executives, and writers. Effective communication can exist without words... they are only one tool in our communications toolbox, and there are so many others we ignore when we use words exclusively, as the web prompts us to do.

Other effective tools: a winning smile, a twinkling eye, a big fist, an angry glare.

None of which clarify meaning, all meant to either deceive or intimidate. It is *these* tools in the hands of con men and politicians that deceive people.

Yes, words can be twisted, but not half so much as all the social cues we're trained to defer to.

The very social cues that the Internet allows us to bypass. The ability to communicate via video has existed on the web for a long time, but most people still prefer to communicate verbally. You seem to think that's a bad thing, I think it's a good thing.

It's not just avoiding prejudice, although that is a factor, it's also avoiding physical and emotional intimidation. It's leveling the playing field, in ways no one imagined when I was young.

And I say, 'good!'

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

It sounds like you're (very politely) saying that people have prejudices, and anonymity removes the possibility of prejudice. If that's so, maintaining that anonymity would only serve to prolong those prejudices, when we ought to be working toward eliminating them... which successful cooperation often does.

I guess I am saying that we all respond differently to people of different genders, ethnicities, ages and abilities, and that there are structural power relations between people of different genders, ethnicities, ages and abilities. However enlightened, non-oppressive, non-discriminatory, turned on, tuned in, dropped out or in any other way generally right on I might consider myself to be, those structural power relations continue to impact the relations between me and the people I encounter.

As a medium the internet can, in some ways, minimize the negative impacts of those differences, simply because I am mostly unaware of the genders, ethnicities, ages and abilities of many of the people I communicate with. It can also provide a screen behind which people can hide to get away with saying things they wouldn't say in a more face-to-face situation. I am agreeing with you that the latter is often, but not always, a bad thing, but I'm also saying that the former can be, but isn't necessarily, a good thing.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by TGS

As a medium the internet can, in some ways, minimize the negative impacts of those differences, simply because I am mostly unaware of the genders, ethnicities, ages and abilities of many of the people I communicate with. It can also provide a screen behind which people can hide to get away with saying things they wouldn't say in a more face-to-face situation. I am agreeing with you that the latter is often, but not always, a bad thing, but I'm also saying that the former can be, but isn't necessarily, a good thing.

I understand what you mean, as I attested to in the essay... but I question whether the discussion of digital media needs that anonymity to progress... in fact, I claim that it has only served to hold it back.

Anyway, this really wasn't the thread to discuss the merits of the piece, but it was nice to see that someone was interested!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

...the third Kestral saga is done. Title: The House of Jacquarelle. The blurb:

The industry-controlling governments of Lyrae Two and Lyrae Six have been enmeshed in corporate espionage for years, but it's beginning to escalate to dangerous levels. Carolyn Kestral and the crew of the Mary, as well as Coray Gheris and the Jovian Skies, get caught in the crossfire... and in the process, discover a shocking secret about one of their own!

And now: Make a cover...

[J. Dean]

Just finished a short story. The Mrs. is going to give it a look-over before I put it up, but if all goes well it should be up by tomorrow afternoon.

As for the novels.... alllmoost theeeerrree.....