The only kind of piracy I cared enough about to write...

[queentess]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Now you are making an inference that I did not present; great way to start an argument; bad way to make a point.

Who's making inferences? I was asking for a clarification.

You wrote:

Originally Posted by clockworkzombie

Me too actually. For some reason I respect the work of authors moreso than Hollywood types. To make it clearer for the slow folk...

This, to me, sounded as if you were advocating piracy of movies but not books. Apparently this is not so. Sorry for being "slow".

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Not that I read any of that;

That does not invalidate my point.

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

the last good vampire story was penned by Bram Stoker and the last decent one by Anne Rice. As for religious fiction, I had 8 years of that in parochial school

Twilight, Anne Rice... potato, potahto

[speakingtohe]

Sure. It is called "google." Pick your favorite authors. Google to see if their e-mail address is public. If not, google to find their agent or publicist and see if their e-mail address is public. Paypal them the cash or ask for somewhere to mail a check.

Seems a bit dangerous to me. Some might interpret it as saying

"Ok I stole your book, but I feel guilty so here is a small portion of what I would have to pay if I got it through normal channels"
-or -
"Here is what I think you are worth, but let's get together and cut the publisher out."

So you send an author $1 or even $10 and possibly insult their integrity at the same time. Probably you are paying PayPal more than you send the author. That should make the author happy.

I would like to see a system of this sort set up through legitimate channels such as a library system, where authors could opt in if they wish and proceeds would be distributed fairly to authors and publishers (50/50 IMO but that should be up to the recipents).

Helen

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Seems a bit dangerous to me. Some might interpret it as saying

"Ok I stole your book, but I feel guilty so here is a small portion of what I would have to pay if I got it through normal channels"
-or -
"Here is what I think you are worth, but let's get together and cut the publisher out."

So you send an author $1 or even $10 and possibly insult their integrity at the same time. Probably you are paying PayPal more than you send the author. That should make the author happy.

I would like to see a system of this sort set up through legitimate channels such as a library system, where authors could opt in if they wish and proceeds would be distributed fairly to authors and publishers (50/50 IMO but that should be up to the recipents).

Helen

Maybe it is dangerous but *I* didn't and wouldn't put it out there. However while not exactly the same situation, waaaay back in this inane thread I spoke of supporting smaller music (specifically blues, not that it matters); we had signed up to be Soldiers Angels, folks who would write and send small care packages to folks serving in combat areas with no one to write to; they would get quite lonesome come the holidays. In any event, I happened to have a CD by a blues-rock band from this guys area and since most things like CDs get broken into a million bits by the time it gets there, we sent him a small cheap mp3 player with that CD on it so all the guy had to so was charge it up and listen. He actually called us on Christmas day all the way from Iraq to thank us because it made him feel like home. As a result of this and knowing the band was struggling we sent a check for the price of a CD to the band telling them what we did and what the GI said. They were over the moon and the concept of piracy never entered into the conversation. A couple of years later we did basically the same thing with a larger act almost always touring and had the same response (sent it to a dying friend). So it's no guarantee someone is going to yell "piracy" and by doing this the author would get more than they would from a publisher.

Now the problem I have with sending money to someone you just "googled" is that anyone can game the system and you have no guarantee the money will ever reach the intended person. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that unlike recorded music and video (movies), literally *every* book is out there for the grabbing and I don't see anyone trying to do anything about it. For the cost of the download of a single movie you could make a list and download every book you could ever *possibly* want from any category. The horses have fled the barn, you cannot put the toothpaste into the tube again, pick your cliche, its all true. All that is left is finding some way to even the scales for people who have brought us so much.

[jeffcobb]

Originally Posted by queentess

Who's making inferences? I was asking for a clarification.

You wrote:

This, to me, sounded as if you were advocating piracy of movies but not books. Apparently this is not so. Sorry for being "slow".

This thing quotes strangely. To "clarify" the movie and recorded music industry has people fighting for them but who fights for the authors? Not only that but any given movie has a writer, director, special effects person, etc. The author is usually just one person who has to do all of that with just words. So yeah I guess I am a little biased on the side of the author.

And as for Twilight, when the missus got into Roswell I gave one of those "young adult" scifi/horror/whatever stories a shot and wanted to dig my eyeballs out with a spoon.

Just had a BFO; you remind me of the Henny Youngman joke about getting two ties for Christmas and he wears one to work at which point she exclaims "So you hate the other one????" My post had less to do with movie piracy than it did with book piracy. If you wish to see it the other way, party on. Takes all kinds.

To sum: I care more about book piracy than movies or music, usually due to the drivel to content ratio contained therein.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

"Ok I stole your book, but I feel guilty so here is a small portion of what I would have to pay if I got it through normal channels"

Isn't that exactly what you were wanting to know how to do?

Probably you are paying PayPal more than you send the author.

You don't pay Paypal to send someone money. And you certainly wouldn't pay more than you send. This ain't Western Union.

and proceeds would be distributed fairly to authors and publishers (50/50 IMO but that should be up to the recipents).

And I say screw the publishers.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

To sum: I care more about book piracy than movies or music, usually due to the drivel to content ratio contained therein.

I just don't see the drivel:content ratio you are talking about, i.e. there being a bigger percentage of bad movies than bad books. What there is is a vastly larger number of books than movies, so there is a larger absolute number of good books to pick from than movies. But as for proportions, I wouldn't use the large majority of popular books today even to rap fish.

[clockworkzombie]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

But as for proportions, I wouldn't use the large majority of popular books today even to rap fish.

Mikey And Big Bob
Filet-O-Fish Rap lyrics

Fish in my car
Fish on a boat
Fish in the water
Look at it float

Fish over here
Fish over there
Fish in my hair
Underwear

Fish on my shoes
Fish man boobs
Big boobs
Get sexy

Gim, gim, gim, gim, gi meh
Gim, gim, gim, gim, gi meh
Giv meh, gim, gim, gi meh
Gi meh thah, gim, gim, gim, gim meh

Give me back that banana fish
Give me that fish

Fish in a snuggie
Fish with a gnome
Buying the fish drinks
Then I'm taking it home

Fish in a gold chain
Making it rain
Awe, yeah
Diddy thing

Fish in the toilet, I'm taking a crap
Fish in an Abraham Lincoln hat
My name's Mikey, and his name's Bob
Put the Filet-O-Fish on the crotch

Gim, gim, gim, gim, gi meh
Gim, gim, gim, gim, gi meh
Giv meh, gim, gim, gi meh
Gi meh thah, gim, gim, gim, gim meh

Give me back that banana fish
Give me that fish

Give me back that banana fish
Give me that fish

What if it were you
Up on this wall
If it were you and that sandwich
You wouldn't be laughing at all

[speakingtohe]

Isn't that exactly what you were wanting to know how to do?

I don't recall actually wanting to know how to do anything. What I meant to say is that I do not think sending off money in a willy nilly way is the greatest of plans.

You don't pay Paypal to send someone money. And you certainly wouldn't pay more than you send. This ain't Western Union.

Stupid me, and here I thought PayPal was a business and apparently so do they although you are right you wouldn't pay more than you send.

And I say screw the publishers.

Oh dear, they must have done something really bad to make you feel this way. Other than pursuing the American dream of course.

I would be interested to know how the sending money to the author(s) works out for you.

Helen

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I don't recall actually wanting to know how to do anything.

My mistake-- I was thinking you were the OP.

Stupid me, and here I thought PayPal was a business and apparently so do they although you are right you wouldn't pay more than you send.

Yes, this is indeed stupid of you. The first time you mentioned the fees you would pay to Paypal to send money you were wrong out of mere ignorance. To not bother to research the fact that I was right in what I said and that you will pay nothing but instead choose make a snarky remark crosses the grace area of "ignorance."

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...y-fees-outside

Oh dear, they must have done something really bad to make you feel this way. Other than pursuing the American dream of course.

The American dream is to be middleman that is being made rapidly obsolete by the internet? I never wouldda guessed.

[speakingtohe]

Yes, this is indeed stupid of you. The first time you mentioned the fees you would pay to Paypal to send money you were wrong out of mere ignorance. To not bother to research the fact that I was right in what I said and that you will pay nothing but instead choose make a snarky remark crosses the grace area of "ignorance."

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...y-fees-outside

Actually I did look that up and was going to include the link but seemed a tad inflamatory for some reason.
The 1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD taken from money I have sent seems like a fee to me.

My apologies for any snarkiness which I cannot completely deny. I have some issues with the idea that publishers are as totally corrupt and uselss as some people feel. I am not pointing a finger at you here, it seems to be a very strong feeling which I do not agree with.

http://memory.loc.gov/learn/lessons/.../thedream.html

[queentess]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Actually I did look that up and was going to include the link but seemed a tad inflamatory for some reason.
The 1.9% to 2.9% + $0.30 USD taken from money I have sent seems like a fee to me.

Reading Comprehension 101:

Paypal Personal Transfer

Free when the money comes from PayPal balance or bank account.

2.9% + $0.30 USD when the money comes from a debit or credit card or PayPal Credit

So I guess you could pay for the transfer if you really wanted to... just not sure why you would make that choice

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I have some issues with the idea that publishers are as totally corrupt and uselss as some people feel.

Not "corrupt and useless"-- "obsolete and irrelevant" and increasingly bypassable. You can make whatever arguments for benefits and "value added services" you want (professional marketing, professional editing) but writers can skip going through a publisher to make their book available, and readers can skip going through a publisher to pay for a book. And if it can be done, it will be done.

As for the "American Dream" red herring, it is simply not possible for me to care less about the founders of a publishing company starting their business hoping to get rich. Just because someone starts a business doesn't mean I'm obligated to use them.

[jeffcobb]

Man, has this ever spun out of scope...:0

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Man, has this ever spun out of scope...:0

MobileRead relies on the butterfly theory of thread directions.

[MrPLD]

Okay, time to throw some new spin in here... I'm a publisher (my wife is the author), I'm also an Open-source developer (lots of packages) and give away a lot of stuff 'free' to the net and deal a lot with copyright/copy-protection/DRM etc etc.

Now, my view on this whole debacle is simple - as the OP says, the horse has left the barn and there is no DRM scheme that will truly protect a given electronic media (looks like BluRay just lost the fight now that the master keys are leaked). There's no DRM on any of our free or commercial productions, we just don't see the point given that we are the content producers and publishers. Copies will get out there irrespective, those who would pay will pay, those who wouldn't usually won't but it doesn't matter- we actually win out because they get exposed to our work, that's a win for marketing.

When it comes however to the situation where the content-creator and the publisher are separate entities, I can see why DRM is constantly being worked on, because the publisher wants to 'reassure' the creator that their work is protected and the creator is relying on the publisher to market the goods hence they don't look to "pirated copies" for exposure.

Perhaps my view is a bit simplified but at this point it works well for us.

http://elitadaniels.com