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Old 09-09-2010, 02:10 PM   #31
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Or, to put it differently; men won just under two thirds of the last forty Booker Prizes - which is about the same gender split as this year's short-list.
In 2006 two-thirds of the shortlist was written by women and a woman won. Does that then prove the Booker is biased towards women? Of course not. The fact is there's no evidence of gender bias at all.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:36 PM   #32
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In 2006 two-thirds of the shortlist was written by women and a woman won. Does that then prove the Booker is biased towards women? Of course not. The fact is there's no evidence of gender bias at all.
Your point was that the gender break down of Booker winners contained no evidence of gender bias. I re-framed your claim to point out that it implied that about two thirds of winners were men. Does that not prove, just as a statistical matter, that the Booker is biased in favour of men?
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:12 PM   #33
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So, has anyone read two or more of the six short-listed? One or more?
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:22 AM   #34
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I read three books from the longlist but only Room made it into the shortlist.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:21 AM   #35
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Perhaps it is better, and perfectly possible, to think of it as positive action rather than sex discrimination.
It is the same thing.
Whether 'positive' or 'negative', discrimination is discrimination.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:25 AM   #36
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Most prizes (with the possible exception of the Turner) discriminate against the talentless - as a member of that group, I'm continually left feeling insulted and marginalised .
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:26 AM   #37
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Ah yes, the Turner Prize. If Tracy whats-her-name can win it with her unmade bed, there's hope for us all .
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:29 AM   #38
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Your point was that the gender break down of Booker winners contained no evidence of gender bias. I re-framed your claim to point out that it implied that about two thirds of winners were men. Does that not prove, just as a statistical matter, that the Booker is biased in favour of men?
No, not unless the proportion of books being written that are worthy of winning are assumed to be 50:50 by men and women.
An unbiased process is one that treats everyone purely on merit. One that attempts to 'balance out' the results in an artificial way is biased.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:31 AM   #39
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No, not unless the proportion of books being written that are worthy of winning are assumed to be 50:50 by men and women.
An unbiased process is one that treats everyone purely on merit. One that attempts to 'balance out' the results in an artificial way is biased.
Perhaps, then, the judging panel should simply be given anonymous manuscripts, and not know who the author is? That's the way that peer reviewing in scientific journals is done, precisely to eliminate any element of personal bias that might arise through knowing the name of the author.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:33 AM   #40
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Perhaps, then, the judging panel should simply be given anonymous manuscripts, and not know who the author is?
You can always tell if a novel's author is male or female.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:35 AM   #41
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You can always tell if a novel's author is male or female.
Hmmm. Not sure if I'd agree with that. Soppy romances aren't always written by women, and hard SF not always by men!
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:37 AM   #42
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Hmmm. Not sure if I'd agree with that. Soppy romances aren't always written by women, and hard SF not always by men!
I may have a tad sweeping ; but can you think of a female SF author who could be mistaken for a male one?
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:42 AM   #43
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I may have a tad sweeping ; but can you think of a female SF author who could be mistaken for a male one?
The reason that C.J. Cherryh originally published books using only her initials was precisely that she didn't want to be "stigmatised" as "a woman writer". I'm not sure that there's anything about her extremely "hard" SF that shouts out that it was written by a woman.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:02 AM   #44
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The fact is there are more male authors than female. 30:70 is normal.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:22 AM   #45
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The fact is there are more male authors than female. 30:70 is normal.
And why are there more male authors than female authors I wonder?
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