Kindle - Critical Questions

[nimblem]

If you don't want other people to know what you read, you probably shouldn't own an ereader. And you really shouldn't get a constantly connected Kindle or Nook, at least according to the EFF's eye-opening guide to ebook privacy.

The Kindle and Nook are tied to Amazon and Barnes & Noble's respective bookstores, meaning every purchase and every book search is recorded. Amazon's license agreement for the Kindle, for instance, notes that the Kindle's software "will provide Amazon with data about your Device and its interaction with the Service...and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device)."

The Nook is obviously capable of phoning home in a similar manner, but it's unknown whether or not it does, at least for now. With Google Books, it's clear that what you're actually reading is logged, down to the specific page.

On the other hand, since Sony's Reader lacks 3G for a constant connection and isn't as tightly integrated with their ebook store, there's less opportunity for data collection, particularly if you stick w/ sideloaded books. Better still, says the EFF is the open-source FBReader. But you can't download books from anywhere in 3 seconds over 3G, and the experience isn't as nice.

It's the classic tradeoff: Less privacy for more convenience and a better experience, or greater privacy for a bigger hassle. What side are you on? [EFF]


http://gizmodo.com/5434773/is-your-k...ing-on-you-yes

[vugtitan]

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

They did not remove the Harry Potter books, but requested that users do so, and their money was refunded. I bought those, and they did not delete my copy. I did it myself.

Could you clarify that please?

If I put any document or book or rtf or pdf ,etc,etc on the Kindle Amazon will know about it?

[Pushka]

I suspect it was a 'generic' message to kindlers to remove them, not one sent to specific devices.

[Achiever]

@Nimblin

Great Post and the further Information (Link) are also very good.

Originally Posted by vugtitan

Could you clarify that please?

If I put any document or book or rtf or pdf ,etc,etc on the Kindle Amazon will know about it?

I think so, they'll track anything they can..

It's like google - you get good services and software, but the price is your privacy!

Thats also a main reason why amazon is offering such a "good" deal.
You'll get a good device for an good price (cash) - the hidden price is your privacy - a profile of you and your preferences.

I allmost buyd a 330$ ereader, but thats alot of cash for an ereader.
http://mybebook.com/6-inch-ereaders/...duct_info.html

So I decided not to spend so much money for an ereader and buy the new kindle 3 that was just pre-released and offers most quality for the lowest price(dollar) at the moment.

I really hope some good developer(team) will help so many people by finding a way to install a hacked, optimized firmware for kindle 3 with all the goodies you want to have.. like privacy (no sending anonym data) , support for more formats like standart pdf and so on.

This is a good thread about what I mean:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51371

Hope someone will get it to work with the k3.

I think I will sell it later and buy some better reader, because there are alot better ereaders with more features and more formats supported and with guaranteed privacy, but they cost around 250$ and worth the price!

In the endeffect, we will see, what can be done or not!

[carld]

Originally Posted by vugtitan

Could you clarify that please?

If I put any document or book or rtf or pdf ,etc,etc on the Kindle Amazon will know about it?

Could they? Sure.

Do they? I doubt it very much.

[danachee]

Here's a thought. The complaint seems to be that Amazon has access to your device (because it makes the experience much better) and that could invade your privacy. So, for someone interested, when the wifi-only K3 arrived, deregister it, so it doesn't belong to anyone, connect it to wifi, and see if you can download free books, etc. If so, then the wifi only kindle is no different from the bebook mentioned above. Yes, you will miss out on the Amazon experience, but you will retain your privacy and you can read any non-DRMed mobi or text book out there.

Once you are tied to a store (Amazon/Sony/Barnes&Noble/etc) they will absolutely keep track of what you buy. That's just good marketing. I'm not sure if the bookstores have installed software to actually get a directory listing of what you have on the device. After all, they already know what they've pushed, so they don't need it for that. I don't think it would buy them anything to do that (from a 'I want to sell books' perspective).

As for personal data. Amazon reading it is much less of an issue than the fact that the kindle doesn't have a lock, so if you lose your device, or its stolen, someone else will have all of your info, so I wouldn't store anything on the kindle I wasn't willing to have the whole world see.

[Kumabjorn]

The newer Kindles have password protection. Nothing a determined cracker couldn't break in an hour or so, but it should keep out the casual finder in case you leave it at your Starbucks table.

[hurricane]

i do not understand why the privacy issue is such a big deal: every time I go to a restaurant and order dishes, everyone around me will know my preference in food; every time I walk down the street, every passer-by who sees me will know my preference in clothes.... so exactly what the issue is if amazon knows what you like to read?

[BVLarson]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

If you're worried about this kinda thing, best buy your books used, at small shops that don't track your purchases. Pay cash. Maybe wear a disguise, lol.

Hear, hear!

As futurist/conspiracy theorists go, you aren't trying hard enough, OP!
The real threat of Amazon is a lock on future titles due to stomping all the publishing competition. If Amazon becomes the "google" of books, they will have a power over organized thought (books). This threat, if it ever arises, will be akin to Apple and music, or Microsoft and operating systems. A threat to intellectual freedom, but probably not one that will have much more than a decade's worth of impact.

Also, right now Amazon is a champion of the small, where as google and Apple are the opposite. They are far more onerous to individual rights.
-BVL

[vugtitan]

Originally Posted by hurricane

i do not understand why the privacy issue is such a big deal: every time I go to a restaurant and order dishes, everyone around me will know my preference in food; every time I walk down the street, every passer-by who sees me will know my preference in clothes.... so exactly what the issue is if amazon knows what you like to read?

So if I put confidential company accounts or mergers or takeovers that information can be read by Amazon.

If I put my credit card number on the Kindle it can be read by Amazon?

I was shocked and very disturbed to read above that Amazon had deleted books like 1984 by remote control!

If enough people had Kindles and paper books cease to exist then Amazon could delete all books that are not approved by Amazon!


This is very frightening.

[carld]

No, it really isn't frightening at all, not even slightly.

Amazon isn't going to read your personal documents or your credit card, why would they? It'd be a massive, and I mean MASSIVE, public relations disaster for them.

We've covered 1984 over and over and over again. It was an illegally uploaded book, it got deleted. They reimbursed the people who bought it far above and beyond what they paid for it. Amazon goofed, and promised the won't do it again. The whole thing was just blown WAY out of proportion by Amazon haters to make the company look just as bad as possible.

[Ajax]

All these people complaining about 1984 just give me such a headache.

Amazon had NO RIGHT TO SELL IT, they sold a stolen item and when they found out they removed it. If you buy a stolen item in the real world, guess what the police can confiscate it!

It's not a giant conspiracy where they hated big brother, they made a mistake and tried to rectify it. They learned from what they did and now no longer remove books without the owners permission. Just give it a rest already.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by vugtitan

So if I put confidential company accounts or mergers or takeovers that information can be read by Amazon.

If I put my credit card number on the Kindle it can be read by Amazon?

At any company I've worked for, if you put confidential corporate information on a device not approved and secured by IT, it would be a firing offense.

If you store your CC info in clear text anywhere, you're a fool.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Ajax

It's not a giant conspiracy where they hated big brother, they made a mistake and tried to rectify it. They learned from what they did and now no longer remove books without the owners permission. Just give it a rest already.

Yep. It came up again where someone posted Harry Potter bootlegs and they did not remove them. They gave people refunds and requested that they remove the books but left it up to the individual customers.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by vugtitan

So if I put confidential company accounts or mergers or takeovers that information can be read by Amazon.

I don't understand why you would put that stuff on an e-book reader in the first place, but no, top-secret eyes-only stuff probably shouldn't go on your Kindle. I don't have a clue how Amazon would pick it out of the millions of megabytes of documents people are putting on Kindles all the time, but just to be safe.

If I put my credit card number on the Kindle it can be read by Amazon?

Um? You have to turn 1-click ordering on for your account in order to hook a Kindle up to it. That means Amazon already has your credit card information.

I was shocked and very disturbed to read above that Amazon had deleted books like 1984 by remote control!

You'll have to bear with the rest of us, who have known about it since the day it happened. A lot of the urgency has worn off for us.

For what it's worth, I have hundreds of books (literally) on my Kindle(s) and Amazon has deleted 2 of them, because I asked them to; in both case it was my choice to return them and get my money back. One was formatted for DX and had illustrations that did not work on my K2, the other was an encyclopedia that was apparently the result of a botched scanning job and utterly unreadable.

Amazon does not make a habit of deleting its customers' books. The 1984 incident was a public relations nightmare for them and they obviously learned from it.

If enough people had Kindles and paper books cease to exist then Amazon could delete all books that are not approved by Amazon!

We depend on people like you to hold Amazon's feet to the fire, and protect us all by getting one of the many fine readers that don't have wireless connectivity. The diverse and vital community of e-book reader companies ensures that Amazon cannot lock anybody in, as there are plenty of competitors to go to. This very site has forum after forum devoted to the different types, plus a forum for people who are still trying to decide. I want you to know I appreciate your willingness to forgo a Kindle to help keep everyone's options open.

Thank you for your sacrifice.