Why do press folks hate Sony? - Page 3

slayda · 11-03-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyB

I appologize for soapboxing and sounding bitter. I guess I get so steamed that a consumer would consider buying a book more than once so they can read it in different formats/media.

heavyB, I don't see having multiple formats of a book as any different than having two cars, TVs, computers, pairs of shoes, etc. when you can only use one at a time. We each have our reasons & sometimes it's as simple as, "I just want it & can afford it." That's part of why we bought the Sony Reader. We could all have just read pbooks but I'm glad I got mine & may get a second one (for me this time).

I admit that, like it was said in a previous post, I would like to be able to buy the pbook and have the ebook version be a normal part of the purchase. But that hasn't happend yet so I muddle along with what's available & hope for better thinks in the future.

Cthulhu · 11-04-2006, 01:28 AM

@ HeavyB:

I can feel your pain on a number of issues. I would phone Random House & Penguin to complain about how prices and how *I* (& OK, at least 3 other people) feel about the price structure of e-text if I thought it would matter.

Sadly, the only reason iTunes was created was to offer a peace settlement to two warring--and both wrong--camps. I imagine that the RIAA offered content to Apple b/c 10% of 99 cents is better than nothing, their return on Napster & similar sites. iTunes is not some populist movement to free the data of the ears, it is a business solution to an incredibly huge threat.

There exists no such condition in the world of publishing. To be mean, everyone who buys a hard copy book to have, then the e-book at the same price, is hurting the cause. A Boycott only works if we really stop buying. Very few people are devoted enough to that cause to deprive themselves of the pleasure of reading. For that, you people who are stopping me from getting $2.99 ebooks are awesome, and I applaud your dedication to using your brains.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am one cheap slimy thing, and I do most of my book shopping at the local library. So for me, the argumet against DRM is linked to the fact that the current model for ebooks does not work in the lending library system. **However**, I can check out a DVD, or a brand new CD from said library. Most folks have the technology to steal this data. Some do, some don't. But for all their complaints, the MPAA & RIAA let themselves be robbed by not stopping this huge file-sharing system (i.e. the public library) from getting its files!

Of course, another problem is that digital content like a music CD or movie on DVD is quite different than the printed book. We have an "Apples & Oranges" thing there.

yvanleterrible · 11-04-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

@ HeavyB:

I can feel your pain on a number of issues. I would phone Random House & Penguin to complain about how prices and how *I* (& OK, at least 3 other people) feel about the price structure of e-text if I thought it would matter.

Sadly, the only reason iTunes was created was to offer a peace settlement to two warring--and both wrong--camps. I imagine that the RIAA offered content to Apple b/c 10% of 99 cents is better than nothing, their return on Napster & similar sites. iTunes is not some populist movement to free the data of the ears, it is a business solution to an incredibly huge threat.

There exists no such condition in the world of publishing. To be mean, everyone who buys a hard copy book to have, then the e-book at the same price, is hurting the cause. A Boycott only works if we really stop buying. Very few people are devoted enough to that cause to deprive themselves of the pleasure of reading. For that, you people who are stopping me from getting $2.99 ebooks are awesome, and I applaud your dedication to using your brains.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am one cheap slimy thing, and I do most of my book shopping at the local library. So for me, the argumet against DRM is linked to the fact that the current model for ebooks does not work in the lending library system. **However**, I can check out a DVD, or a brand new CD from said library. Most folks have the technology to steal this data. Some do, some don't. But for all their complaints, the MPAA & RIAA let themselves be robbed by not stopping this huge file-sharing system (i.e. the public library) from getting its files!

Of course, another problem is that digital content like a music CD or movie on DVD is quite different than the printed book. We have an "Apples & Oranges" thing there.

Good points! I agree fully! May I add that buying an ebook is a totally blind decision. You have no other way than trusting the accompanying reviews, to make a decision on purchase. We have all been burned by so called critics! At least in a book store or a library you can lightly peruse at the contents. But at least if you know a particuliar author, it helps online...

heavyB · 11-04-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slayda

heavyB, I don't see having multiple formats of a book as any different than having two cars, TVs, computers, pairs of shoes, etc. when you can only use one at a time. We each have our reasons & sometimes it's as simple as, "I just want it & can afford it." That's part of why we bought the Sony Reader. We could all have just read pbooks but I'm glad I got mine & may get a second one (for me this time).

I admit that, like it was said in a previous post, I would like to be able to buy the pbook and have the ebook version be a normal part of the purchase. But that hasn't happend yet so I muddle along with what's available & hope for better thinks in the future.

I respect your point of view on this Slayda and I believe as well the Sony Reader is a luxury not a necessity. If my point was simply about the money, it's arguable about the savings I'm getting by using a Reader instead of reading pbooks only.

My point is entirely principled for sure. It's purely value based, not only a matter of choice. If you want to by 2 copies of the same book, buy 2. If you want to buy it once, read it once and throw it away, great! At least a tree wasn't cut down to do it. Others have said they like both hardback & softcover copies. A fact is clear; no one is forcing us to buy anything. After all, this isn't food, shelter or clothing (although some would lump literature in there no doubt).

Let's be thankful it's not a necessity, for if it was food, I'd have to put it in a sony oven and couldn't give anyone else a bite. If it was clothes, When one of my children grew out of them they're ready for the trash. If it were shelter, there'd not much of a sellers market there.

I'm glad there's all these cool heads out there prevailing on the forums, shrugging their shoulders, glad to have whatever they're willing to let us pay for. If not, I'd problably not have my Sony Reader to put my (partly) illegitimate content on. I too am a cheap wonk and I'm simply saying I don't like my options and I'm doing something about it in my own obsessive way, despite the high blood pressure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Sadly, the only reason iTunes was created was to offer a peace settlement to two warring--and both wrong--camps. I imagine that the RIAA offered content to Apple b/c 10% of 99 cents is better than nothing, their return on Napster & similar sites. iTunes is not some populist movement to free the data of the ears, it is a business solution to an incredibly huge threat.

Well put Cthulhu, but while I don't know the comparitive numbers between online downloadable sales & CD sales, I do know 10% of over 1 billion of anything (in this case iTune tracks @ .99 cents per) isn't too hard of a comprimise. Am I way off base to think iTunes wouldn't be as popular if you couldn't burn if off to CD? Maybe not. At .99 cents per song, maybe folks don't care. Too bad I can't buy chapters at .99 cents, then maybe I wouldn't care either.

It's been said that Sony reads these forums. That's great and if they are, thanks for showing up Sony! I still hold to my guns and I believe it's a matter of trust. Sony/Publishers: Trust me with what I'm paying for and I'll pay for it.

slayda · 11-05-2006, 09:01 AM

Maybe someone will start up "NetBooks" (similar to NetFlix) and rent ebooks to us.

NatCh · 11-05-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyB

Too bad I can't buy chapters at .99 cents, then maybe I wouldn't care either.

Oh, let's not give them that idea -- most of my books have way more than 6 chapters, so we'd be back to paying (much) more than hardback price in a heartbeat.

TadW · 11-07-2006, 03:24 AM

Some Andy Ihnatko dude from the Chicago Sun-Times got it right!

Sony could potentially have a new iPod on its hands. All it needs do is crack the Reader wide-open; release a free, unrestricted and well-documented API (Application Programmer's Interface) and encourage software developers to support the device in any fashion they can imagine. A Firefox plug-in that moves whatever Web page you're viewing into the Reader. A "Print to Reader" option that appears right in the standard Print dialog box of every PC or Mac app. The ability to use Bloglines or NewsGator or any other RSS newsreader system to automatically keep the Reader updated with the latest news and blog posts from the Web.

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...Andy02.article

jæd · 11-07-2006, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

Some Andy Ihnatko dude from the Chicago Sun-Times got it right!

Sony could potentially have a new iPod on its hands. All it needs do is crack the Reader wide-open; release a free, unrestricted and well-documented API (Application Programmer's Interface) and encourage software developers to support the device in any fashion they can imagine. A Firefox plug-in that moves whatever Web page you're viewing into the Reader. A "Print to Reader" option that appears right in the standard Print dialog box of every PC or Mac app. The ability to use Bloglines or NewsGator or any other RSS newsreader system to automatically keep the Reader updated with the latest news and blog posts from the Web.

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...Andy02.article

All of these apps are completely do-able without an API... Its called PDF... (Either print-to-PDF, or just converting) And if the Sony Reader supported html then it would make life easier...!

yvanleterrible · 11-07-2006, 09:41 AM

The IPod would'nt exit without ITunes. I find myself using it as a jukebox across my office and the shop

[QUOTE=heavyB]... If it were shelter, there'd not much of a sellers market there...
QUOTE]
I believe that someone said the Iliad could be bricked.

Cthulhu · 11-07-2006, 10:20 AM

@NatCh: I don't want to re-hash a fiercely debated topic raging in other threads, but one could argue that we all ready *are* renting books from publishers. If Someone offered a chapter for 99 cents, with some sort of buy three get one free, maybe we would feel less grafted.

I need to go play with one of these darn things soon

tcv · 11-07-2006, 11:15 AM

One could argue that. It's not how we all feel though. Especially when the paper book is so tangible, portable, and just sticks with you. When it's digital and/or expires, then, well, they're just proving their point. I don't own anything.

slayda · 11-07-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

@NatCh: I don't want to re-hash a fiercely debated topic raging in other threads, but one could argue that we all ready *are* renting books from publishers. If Someone offered a chapter for 99 cents, with some sort of buy three get one free, maybe we would feel less grafted.

I need to go play with one of these darn things soon

But would you be willing to pay 10 cents for one bar of a tune? One chapter is no good by itself but one song may well be worth buying.

Cthulhu · 11-07-2006, 12:39 PM

@ slayda:

Good point. Maybe 99 cents for short stories....but again, that could be the parts costing more than the whole. See, once again, the iPod paradigm is difficult to translate here.

Regarding purchasing DRM-enable files & "renting" versus "owning":

There is a fancy art gallery down the street. In the window was a BIG painting of a steam locomotive in a buccolic setting. Printed in vinyl letters over the oil, was the statement "If I own a cow, the cow owns me."
So I like old trains, and that Buddhistesque statement got to me. I wanted that painting. When I went into the gallery, the pricetag was $3,000. So here's an artist making a statement against the bondage of stewardship/ownership, and they want $3,000 for the priviledge of telling us.

Sometimes it better not the buy the cow, but the milk is another matter.

This is all to say that maybe I should stop looking at e-texts as being expensive vis-a-vis paper texts, and see the charge as a premium for not taking up space.
So now I'll stop ranting against e-book prices, so long as there is no DRM.

NatCh · 11-07-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

If Someone offered a chapter for 99 cents, with some sort of buy three get one free, maybe we would feel less grafted.

I really don't want to pay $30 for a 30 chapter novel. Even with every 4th free that's still $23 bucks.

If my books only had 5 or 6 chapters, then I might feel differently.

Cthulhu · 11-07-2006, 11:08 PM

All right:

I am not good at math. That is why I work on boats, and not computers. I can calculate courses and speeds, but beyond that, well I have a very smart wife.

My point is that if there were more of an openness about the "renty-ness" of content, it might be more palatable(sp).

I was mainly trying to make an argument for a new model of "buying" content.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
I love my Sony Reader, but I hate Sony (software question)...	Ler0y Jenkins	Sony Reader	1	09-17-2010 11:09 AM
My Love-Hate relationship with my Sony PRS-600	BrightLight	Sony Reader	6	03-09-2010 03:59 PM
GRYPHONWOOD PRESS/BLADE RED PRESS Halloween Giveaway	Winter	Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links)	0	10-30-2009 06:39 AM

11-04-2006, 01:28 AM	#32
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	@ HeavyB: I can feel your pain on a number of issues. I would phone Random House & Penguin to complain about how prices and how I (& OK, at least 3 other people) feel about the price structure of e-text if I thought it would matter. Sadly, the only reason iTunes was created was to offer a peace settlement to two warring--and both wrong--camps. I imagine that the RIAA offered content to Apple b/c 10% of 99 cents is better than nothing, their return on Napster & similar sites. iTunes is not some populist movement to free the data of the ears, it is a business solution to an incredibly huge threat. There exists no such condition in the world of publishing. To be mean, everyone who buys a hard copy book to have, then the e-book at the same price, is hurting the cause. A Boycott only works if we really stop buying. Very few people are devoted enough to that cause to deprive themselves of the pleasure of reading. For that, you people who are stopping me from getting $2.99 ebooks are awesome, and I applaud your dedication to using your brains. In the interest of full disclosure, I am one cheap slimy thing, and I do most of my book shopping at the local library. So for me, the argumet against DRM is linked to the fact that the current model for ebooks does not work in the lending library system. However, I can check out a DVD, or a brand new CD from said library. Most folks have the technology to steal this data. Some do, some don't. But for all their complaints, the MPAA & RIAA let themselves be robbed by not stopping this huge file-sharing system (i.e. the public library) from getting its files! Of course, another problem is that digital content like a music CD or movie on DVD is quite different than the printed book. We have an "Apples & Oranges" thing there.

11-05-2006, 09:01 AM	#35
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	Maybe someone will start up "NetBooks" (similar to NetFlix) and rent ebooks to us.

11-07-2006, 03:24 AM	#37
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	Some Andy Ihnatko dude from the Chicago Sun-Times got it right! Sony could potentially have a new iPod on its hands. All it needs do is crack the Reader wide-open; release a free, unrestricted and well-documented API (Application Programmer's Interface) and encourage software developers to support the device in any fashion they can imagine. A Firefox plug-in that moves whatever Web page you're viewing into the Reader. A "Print to Reader" option that appears right in the standard Print dialog box of every PC or Mac app. The ability to use Bloglines or NewsGator or any other RSS newsreader system to automatically keep the Reader updated with the latest news and blog posts from the Web. http://www.suntimes.com/technology/i...Andy02.article

11-07-2006, 09:41 AM	#39
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	The IPod would'nt exit without ITunes. I find myself using it as a jukebox across my office and the shop [QUOTE=heavyB]... If it were shelter, there'd not much of a sellers market there... QUOTE] I believe that someone said the Iliad could be bricked.

11-07-2006, 10:20 AM	#40
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	@NatCh: I don't want to re-hash a fiercely debated topic raging in other threads, but one could argue that we all ready are renting books from publishers. If Someone offered a chapter for 99 cents, with some sort of buy three get one free, maybe we would feel less grafted. I need to go play with one of these darn things soon

11-07-2006, 11:15 AM	#41
tcv Addict Posts: 330 Karma: 596 Join Date: Oct 2006	One could argue that. It's not how we all feel though. Especially when the paper book is so tangible, portable, and just sticks with you. When it's digital and/or expires, then, well, they're just proving their point. I don't own anything.

11-07-2006, 12:39 PM	#43
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	@ slayda: Good point. Maybe 99 cents for short stories....but again, that could be the parts costing more than the whole. See, once again, the iPod paradigm is difficult to translate here. Regarding purchasing DRM-enable files & "renting" versus "owning": There is a fancy art gallery down the street. In the window was a BIG painting of a steam locomotive in a buccolic setting. Printed in vinyl letters over the oil, was the statement "If I own a cow, the cow owns me." So I like old trains, and that Buddhistesque statement got to me. I wanted that painting. When I went into the gallery, the pricetag was $3,000. So here's an artist making a statement against the bondage of stewardship/ownership, and they want $3,000 for the priviledge of telling us. Sometimes it better not the buy the cow, but the milk is another matter. This is all to say that maybe I should stop looking at e-texts as being expensive vis-a-vis paper texts, and see the charge as a premium for not taking up space. So now I'll stop ranting against e-book prices, so long as there is no DRM.

11-07-2006, 11:08 PM	#45
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	All right: I am not good at math. That is why I work on boats, and not computers. I can calculate courses and speeds, but beyond that, well I have a very smart wife. My point is that if there were more of an openness about the "renty-ness" of content, it might be more palatable(sp). I was mainly trying to make an argument for a new model of "buying" content.

Advert

Advert