Doctorow on the iPad

[HarryT]

Thanks Bob and tyche for elaborating on the development details.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by tyche

Yeah, take a look at what msdn costs for devs or Visual Studio by itself.

I'm not sure where you are going with this... but you can get all the dev tools from MS for free. The Express versions of Visual Studio are free. The .Net framework is free... and all the Windows Phone 7 tools are free. The XNA framework to dev for XBox and or Zune are free. You don't need to buy an MSDN subscription or the full blown Visual Studio.. although I think the entry level Studio is $299.

So, if you were saying Mac tools are cheaper this is not the case.

BOb

[DawnFalcon]

Um. I have two copies of Visual Studio (Express C++ and the WoW Lua version) on my PC, for a grand cost of £0.00.

[HarryT]

The "express" editions of the Visual Studio tools, though, only allow the application to be run on your machine; you don't have a "distribution licence".

Buying Visual Studio is essentially a one-time cost; the upgrades to it are pretty cheap. I've been using the "Pro" edition of it for more years than I care to remember.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The "express" editions of the Visual Studio tools, though, only allow the application to be run on your machine; you don't have a "distribution licence".

That is patently incorrect. From the Express FAQ on MS's page:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/sup...pport-faq.aspx

Can I use Express Editions for commercial use?

Yes, there are no licensing restrictions for applications built using Visual Studio Express Editions.

That makes perfect sense. Since the SDK with the compiler is totally free... and you can develop with Notepad if you want, compile and distribute...

BOb

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

That is patently incorrect. From the Express FAQ on MS's page:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/sup...pport-faq.aspx



That makes perfect sense. Since the SDK with the compiler is totally free... and you can develop with Notepad if you want, compile and distribute...

BOb

That's changed in the last few years, in that case. It certainly used to be that you couldn't distribute with the freebie versions.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's changed in the last few years, in that case. It certainly used to be that you couldn't distribute with the freebie versions.

I don't think that was ever the case. I guess it's possible.. or perhaps you misunderstood because they always stated this was intended for students and hobbyists. But, I guess it is a moot point now.

BOb

[DawnFalcon]

No, he's right, there were some restrictions in the past (linked to using the MFC as I recall), but not now. Instead, you just get a cut-down feature set and lack of the ability to use plugins.

The WoW Lua version is based off the "Visual Studio Shell".

[HarryT]

I've checked. What I was distantly remembering was the old "Academic Edition", which did not allow commercial sale of apps, although you could distribute apps for non-profit. This was replaced with the "Express" editions, which don't have this restriction.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The SDK is Mac-based, I think. I don't know whether it's a free SDK or not, but lots of software development tools cost money; I don't see anything wrong with that.

The SDK is 99$ a year (as many people said before me. I should have read the thread before replying. That said, what I wrote next is still valid).
Which means that to expand the capabilities of your device, you either have to buy an app from the Apple store (no other possibility), or to rent the only SDK that allows to do so yourself.

There is no alternative.

That device is supposed to be yours once you have forked the money over. Somehow, I don't think it is under these circumstances. My opinion is that if you thinks there's nothing wrong with that, you haven't thought out all the implications of such a situation.


ps: Some words in this post have been chosen with the utmost care for what they supposedly symbolise. I'll let you guess which.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Of course, if you want to release it under Cydia for jail broken devices I think it is free. But, if you want to see it paying $99 to have access to 100 million plus potential customer seems a bargain.

BOb

So you can actually write things for yourself, but Apple gets the right to extort a toll over your work if you ever want to try to make a buck out of i, or simply put it on your own device, just because they can!

Nice.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Trenien

So you can actually write things for yourself, but Apple gets the right to extort a toll over your work if you ever want to try to make a buck out of it, just because they can.

Nice.

Pretty much... yea.

But... remember... they are doing all fulfillment and hosting and providing a huge market. So.... yea... whatever.

How much would it cost for you to set up a web site, hosting, merchant account, etc. For many single iPod devs that just do this part time $99 plus 30% of revenue is a deal for what you are getting.

Or... you can think you are being taken advantage of and opt out. Your choice.

BOb

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

But, if you want to see it paying $99 to have access to 100 million plus potential customer seems a bargain.

BOb

If there were any other way to upload to your device, or to sell your app, you could see it that way. The thing is, there isn't, and you can"t (except if you jailbreak, but that's doing something completely different).

I hadn't realized it until now, but Doctorow is even righter than I thought. For Apple, if you are to devellop something means you're a professional, not someone tinkering.

[Trenien]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Pretty much... yea.

But... remember... they are doing all fulfillment and hosting and providing a huge market. So.... yea... whatever.

How much would it cost for you to set up a web site, hosting, merchant account, etc. For many single iPod devs that just do this part time $99 plus 30% of revenue is a deal for what you are getting.

Or... you can think you are being taken advantage of and opt out. Your choice.

BOb

Since the Appstore is the only way to have a chance to get to most owners of iphones/ipad, if you want to sell your app, or simply to upload it to your device, there is no choice. Which is kind of my point.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Trenien

Since the Appstore is the only way to have a chance to get to most owners of iphones/ipad, if you want to sell your app, or simply to upload it to your device, there is no choice. Which is kind of my point.

You have the choice not to write it.