Has iRex misled us?

[kacir]

Do you remember iRex company refusing to sell us the Iliad?

There was bloody revolution on MobileRead forum.
Some people have worked themselves into a frenzy over wanting to buy the device. Phoning to iRex, organizing campains, complaining, bickering, pleading, threatening, wailing ...

Mobileread: "WE WANT TO BUY ILIAD!"

iRex: "well, guys, we do not think it is a good idea. You see, it is still a beta product and it might not work as advertized"

Mobileread: "WE WANT TO BUY IT ANYWAY! YOU PROMISED TO HAVE IT READY BY NOW!"

iRex: "Let us sell it first to content providers and corporate customers first to test the unit"

Mobileread: "*WE* WANT TO BE YOUR PAYING BETATESTERS!!!"

iRex: "Ok guys, if you really, really insist, please send us an email ackgnovledging that you are aware that there might be some problems with Iliad reader, and that some features might not work as advertized ..."

Mobileread: "WE WANT IT, THERE IS AN EMAIL!!!"

iRex: "Sigh. OK. But we are still not sure it is a good idea ..."


Sorry for shouting ;-)
kacir

[b_k]

I like this quote from Linux vs. Windows:
Windows is a toy for one purpose that can't be customized, Linux is like LEGO, you can make it the way you want.
For the iLiad and the Sony Reader:
The Reader is a system with one purpose, the iLiad is the LEGO bricks here (well, once the SDK comes out.)

If you want something that simply runs go for the Sony, but i hope the iLiad will get opened for the "OSS community" in some time. I still have the example of the SIMPad in my eyes, a WinCE tablet that got abandoned by SIemens, but they were nice enough to modify the bootloader so you can run Linux on it. And I can say that thing was great (I sold it).

[ali]

Originally Posted by emkay

I can't agree with this. The iLiad hardware is better specified. It's silly to pretend otherwise. Have you seen the Sony Reader next to the iLiad? It looks tiny!

There seems to be something about me that drives people into name-calling. First Riocaz with saying I'm "ridiculous", and now "silly". Is it really so hard to attack subjects instead of persons?

But, to the subject. I really think that right now (that is, with current software, or with the updated 2.7 specs), and with my way of using the Iliad, the Sony is better in all relevant respects. I invite you to prove me wrong or show where I missed something, so here are details:

the "larger" screen
The screen is larger (8" vs. 6"). However, there's the wasted space on top and bottom, making the usable are 7.5". Most things I display have a fixed aspect ratio of 1.4:1, which is displayed in an area with diagonal 7.0". So, for my content, the Iliad offers 7", the Sony 6". I don't think that's so much a difference, but the Iliad is slightly better. (The resolution of both is same, approx. 160dpi)

the "touch screen"
I don't use it. It's as there is none, if it broke two weeks ago I wouldn't have noticed until now, where I'm writing this. The touch screen has two purposes - navigation and note taking.
1 - Navigation: Using a wacom instead of a simple touch-sensitive thing is the worse choice, because I can't just tip things with a fingernail or the back of a pen, as I used to do with my Zaurus. I have to take out the pen at least three times until it works, and I have to use both hands. It is almost always easier to use the buttons, and it would be even easier if there were the "1" to "10" buttons on the Sony.
2 - Notetaking: Doesn't work on PDFs. I want to use it to annotate what I'm reading - there are two frequent usages: Correcting what students wrote, and adding comments when working through a complicated proof. But I have to switch between PDF and Scribble (takes ca. 10 seconds!). Plus the screen is miscalibrated, so I can really not read what I wrote with it. Also people report their battery life degrades from 9 to 5 hours when they take notes.
Together: The wacom is of no use for me, the Iliad would be of more use to me if there'd be more buttons and no touchscreen.

the "networking"
I see installing software updates as device maintenance, not usage. So the "connectivity option" networking is technically there, but it cannot be used. However, it adds to battery consumption and device cost, so it would be better if it would be not there.

battery life
No need to tell much. From first reviews of the Sony, I hear that the "7500 pages" figure may be accurate. The device can be used for a long time, and it takes just 4 seconds to awake from suspend.

the buttons
Still waiting for user reports, but it seems that the prev/next buttons are two times on the Sony, so you can push them both in portrait and landscape mode, while I think that flipping pages on a landscape Iliad is uncomfortable.

the viewers
I don't use the HTML viewer, everything I read is PDF. But from Sony user reports I see that switching portrait/landscape works, and it even supports a zoom-to-page-width without manual adjustment. Also they seem to use Adobe's renderer, which is much faster and better readable than xpdf (I posted comparison pictures somewhere).

the software
I don't know for sure about the Sony, but they published sources, while I paid for a device that comes with unlicensed software. "Unlicensed" as in "pirate copy", with the same legal implications. I didn't foresee that - a startup company who's first product is unlawful. I have a bunch of friends in different hardware startups, and they'd never come up with such a business idea. For me it's rather shocking, but this time, when talking about open source advocacy, Sony is the good guy and the underdog is the offender. This is new.

the software design
I said that in a different thread, but I think the design of the Iliad's software is flawed from the ground up. I know several guys who develop software for sensor nodes, that is, embedded ultra-low-power software. From there, I have some idea on what works and what not, and the setup with three levels of indirection, all being desktop-oriented, (framebuffer, Xlib, gtk) is bound to be slow and power consuming. On the other hand, the Sony seems to do it right - people report that the screen updates in a second, and startup time from suspend is 4 seconds.

the "but we wanted it" situation
The "we want to pay for being beta testers" argument is essentially correct. But it was (for me) based on the assumption I would get legally distributed GPL software, which means I have the right to fix software bugs myself. Plus the announcement from iRex was not "no good idea, it will probably take ages" - they said that the software would be beta until the release of the consumer version in September. So the agreement is to live with bug-ridden feature-less beta software until, well, last month. That's over now. We did our part (paying, giving feedback), now it's iRex' turn, and they failed.


That's it; feedback and counterarguments are welcome. If you just want to state how very stupid/ridiculous/silly/worthless/subhuman/nazi I am, please send an email to billgates@microsoft.com. Thank you.

[TadW]

Chill, guys! This is a sensitive topic, and I am afraid the answer is either yes or no, depending on your point of view (obviously, or the poll wouldn't be that close).

Let's be friends. One of the things I like about MobileRead is that we usually discuss things in a very polite and civililzed manner, without starting hate wars. Let's keep it that way. It's just more fun. Please, no more name calling, and let's respect everyone's personal opinion.

(sorry for being off-topic)

[emkay]

Ali, don't forget your dispute is with iRex, not with every user of MobileRead.
"Silly" is a rather mild word, and it was not meant as a personal attack. So please don't overreact.

In your previous post you said that the Sony Reader was better than the iLiad in every respect. Without qualification. Now you are producing a long list of mostly subjective qualifications. Fine, I will let you get on with it.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by donkaarlos

Didn't find facts about one hot topic "battery life" (Only that it ran for 4 h without any indication on the battery sign).

Um, I think I said ~5 hours.

Originally Posted by donkaarlos

Now Sony specifies only 7000 page turns.

, 7800, actually, but I'm picking nits.

Originally Posted by donkaarlos

… well I think I’m going to try to measure how much my Sony drains between the page turns…or do we now that already? Sure eReader is likely to be improved. However I would bet that it will not run over 20 h?!

We can't really know that until somebody's had a unit for a while, but I'm betting you're wrong. I'd say closer to 4~5 days of usage between charges, but that's my guess.

Originally Posted by emkay

The iLiad software isn't there yet. But it has more potential, and we are told that an SDK will be released. Can you see Sony doing that?

Well, they've said they would on several occasions.

Let me ask you this: a month ago, could you have seen Sony paying to fly random blogger-types out to their HQ and letting them play with their Reader for a day, having no control over what those folks might post about it?

All I'm saying is they've shown some signigicant signs of trying to change. I'm not saying that we should now buy everything they say no questions asked, but I do think a small modicum of credit is due.

[scotty1024]

Their quiet purge of their web site is leading me to believe there is something wrong with the hardware. It seems as though iRex management now no longer believes that the war on power management can be won and that the war will now not be over before Christmas.

They are circling the wagons, those that are still loyal have been asked to sign loyalty oaths binding their loyalty, and silence, to iRex. And the rest of us are going to be left out in the cold with less frequent updates to be punished for our dis-loyalty.

Whatever deal they thought they were going to make for DRM content? Their recent silence after telling us in early August to expect an announcement soon seems to indicate it is no longer happening. And as has been pointed out: an ebook reader with no DRM content is a paper weight. Or in this case, a VERY expensive paper weight.

[ali]

Originally Posted by scotty1024

Their quiet purge of their web site is leading me to believe there is something wrong with the hardware. It seems as though iRex management now no longer believes that the war on power management can be won and that the war will now not be over before Christmas.

What purge? The dreaded Very low power: You can read three hours a day for more than one week, from the iLiad without recharging the battery is still there, both in the feature list and the shop.

(But I with you that they don't think further pm enhancements are possible, for whatever reason)

[donkaarlos]

Originally Posted by NatCh

We can't really know that until somebody's had a unit for a while, but I'm betting you're wrong. I'd say closer to 4~5 days of usage between charges, but that's my guess.

Thanks for the follow up We'll be interesting to hear experiences. I will follow up in the Sony Forum. Somebody might clock daily usage to get more accurate estimates.. We'll as I said already Libire does rather well with rechargeable batteries and has many nice Software features as well

So far I haven't run out of power with Iliad neither. However it is irritating when you use it for a long time to follow up how the battery goes down step by step..

With Iliad I hoped and still hope to get standard format documents readable (pdf's). As I understood Sony isn,t quite there yet neither. Iliads bigger screen should help. With some pdf books I get already better results on Iliad than on Librie (even when using landscape printing to two pages = this is the biggest pdf zoom you can get on the e-reader right?).

We'll see - might be I'll end up with a ereader sooner or later as well, if Iliad doesn't turn out to be useful for standard size document reading or even reading of newspapers (=this starts to sound like a joke at the present status) The ereader looks very handy!

[mdh]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

@Janus in particular and everybody else too...

I think iRex misled us...by making us think they could acutally do software...

Their Hardware design is OK, it offers lots of possibilities. their Software team seems to be learning as they go along.
I have no clue when it comes to programming and I'll be the first to admit it, but I don't write software for a complicated mobile device either...

I'm angry, and it takes a lot to make me angry...I'll post again tomorrow when I can think a bit more clearly again.

I think CommanderROR hit the nail on the head here.

The iliad hardware and industrial design is quite good. Im thinking here of the main unit, without the 'crutch' of the USB and Ethernet wart (given the built-in WiFi if we had software that let you download to cf/mmc/usb cards using http/ftp/smbclient this wart would just be needed for charging and could even be replaced by a simple connector from the power supply). The main unit is easy to hold without getting fingers on the screen, the flip-bar works well and they have come up with a reasonable feeling surface finish (not an easy task).

iRex clearly underestimated the software effort. Maybe they fell into a trap of 'we can just download and use the open-source code', without considering that you need sufficient in-house software people to make that actually work well. (I could see people with a primarily hardware background falling into this trap really easily)

I just hope they release the code and SDK soon. That and the ability to markup pdfs.

Mark

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by mdh

Maybe they fell into a trap of 'we can just download and use the open-source code', without considering that you need sufficient in-house software people to make that actually work well. (I could see people with a primarily hardware background falling into this trap really easily)

Our CIO fell into a very similar trap, and tried to drag the rest of us into it too.

"I'm sure we'll have no problem finding an off-the-shelf replacement for the completely custom-built, constantly evolving one that is mission-critical and has >95% usage!" We've been waiting almost two years now for them to come and ask what the requirements for the application are....

But I digress -- I agree that it's not difficult to imagine even brilliant folks having that sort of a blind spot.

[donkaarlos]

Originally Posted by mdh

That and the ability to markup pdfs.

Mark

I finished reading a pdf book with my Iliad yesterday and actually I noticed again having a rather nice device in my hands.

With markup and full screen it will be even better.

[ali]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

I think iRex misled us...by making us think they could acutally do software...

Their Hardware design is OK, it offers lots of possibilities. their Software team seems to be learning as they go along.

I'm curious what their "software team" is. One guy? Two? I think two is realistic (Angel + somebody else), the progress with the software, website and shop looks like two developers to me.

Also they habe their job announcement running for two months now, looks like they're trying to get more developers but can't find some.

Also it seems to me the team just for the Iliad's software should be 5-10 developers...

[kusmi]

Just remember (at least that's what I learned at my software engineering lessons - and also reflects my own experience)

"Adding additional staff to an already late project, will further delay it" :-)

But I agree, I think a good development team for this type of project should be around 5 developers, especially as it seems they have grouped the functionality into more-or-less independent modules (e.g. pdf-viewer, html-viewer, file-browser, networking, configuration management, etc) - nevertheless I have the feeling, they are missing a person who looks at the overall picture - as they develop a rather low-level device which has all this restrictions (I think you mentioned already earlier - like power-consumtion, efficiency, etc), which could only be solved, if someone looks at all pieces together. For me it looks like they started with gluing together opensource software without (or a wrong one, as you mentioned: using a desktop development model for an embedded device is not a perfect fit) a architectural picture behind it, so the result is a mixture of components which kind of work together, but are not a very good fit, then of course extending this device makes it more and more difficult...

[design256]

Originally Posted by kacir

Do you remember iRex company refusing to sell us the Iliad?

There was bloody revolution on MobileRead forum.
Some people have worked themselves into a frenzy over wanting to buy the device. Phoning to iRex, organizing campains, complaining, bickering, pleading, threatening, wailing ...

Mobileread: "WE WANT TO BUY ILIAD!"

iRex: "well, guys, we do not think it is a good idea. You see, it is still a beta product and it might not work as advertized"

Mobileread: "WE WANT TO BUY IT ANYWAY! YOU PROMISED TO HAVE IT READY BY NOW!"

iRex: "Let us sell it first to content providers and corporate customers first to test the unit"

...and all of this would not make much business sense if they were trying to release a consumer-oriented product in competition with the Sony Reader. If this had been the case they would probably have released the SDK and sources before they released the hardware.

However, take a step back and think.... Supposing that they never intended Iliad to be a consumer product. Say they intended it to be 95% sales to businesses with custom software and custom content tailored to the need of large organisations. But they didn't have the staff to ensure that the product was fully beta-tested to the standard needed for business.

So... they could have announced the product to the world in the hope that some fervent early-adopters would do their beta-testing for them. Such people had to promise that they'd be happy with a beta machine, no sdk and an enormous pricetag.

This would then make very good business sense. They would have no need for an open-source community effort as their target market wouldn't be interested in it. The battery life would settle gently at 1 business day. The SDK would arrive one day down the road, but without any serious internal access to the machine (FTP maybe if you're really really lucky, more likely restricted to a proprietary sandbox). Perhaps they'd even delay until forced to release - which might take several years - possibly enough time for their investors to achieve an exit.

Of course all of the above is wild speculation, and I really really hope that I'm wrong. But this smells badly of the Psion Netbook Pro - and I'm scared that the Iliad will go the same way...