iRex needs you to test their iLiad beta software - Page 3

ali · 09-26-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VillageReader

Of course, if you have signed, DRAT!

"DRAT"? AcronymFinder only knows two explanations: District Response Advisory Team and Distributed Raman Assisted Transmission. Which one is right?

VillageReader · 09-26-2006, 01:27 PM

Hmm, I was thinking more like DC Comics.

jæd · 09-26-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_k

well, I think for a closed user group (beta-testers in this case) they should be perfectly legal for not releasing the sources. However I highly doubt that would apply to the regular releases. But, IANAL.

The NDA will probably just cover the un-released features so (as long as they release the source eventually) there probably won't be any conflict...

doctorow · 09-26-2006, 02:09 PM

I think the reason for the general disappointment here is that iRex has the guts to ask interested individuals to sign an NDA, while, on the other hand, they fail to comply to GPL.

jæd · 09-26-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorow

I think the reason for the general disappointment here is that iRex has the guts to ask interested individuals to sign an NDA, while, on the other hand, they fail to comply to GPL.

They are only failing to comply with the GPL because they haven't yet released their source. And the page at http://developer.irexnet.com/gpl clearly shows they intend to do so...

Perhaps waiting abit until we start accusing them of non-compliance...?

ali · 09-26-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jæd

They are only failing to comply with the GPL because they haven't yet released their source. And the page at http://developer.irexnet.com/gpl clearly shows they intend to do so...

Perhaps waiting abit until we start accusing them of non-compliance...?

They are in non-compliance right now. Their announcement is essentially "Yes, we will stop breaking the law somewhere in the future" - and it's over two (three?) months old!

scotty1024 · 09-26-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorow

I think the reason for the general disappointment here is that iRex has the guts to ask interested individuals to sign an NDA, while, on the other hand, they fail to comply to GPL.

It doesn't take guts to ask someone to sign an NDA, an NDA is the opposite of needing guts.

If iRex had opened their store and their sources to the public at the same time. If they'd been saying "Hey we built on top of some great work and we need your help to make it work even better with e-ink."

Now THAT would have been guts.

doctorow · 09-26-2006, 02:42 PM

Personally, I am not accusing them, or I would have mailed them directly. It's been also not an issue until now. I may have my doubts that "cleaning sources" would take several months, but that's again something else.

What I am saying is that some individuals may be offended by the whole overdramatization of the beta test... "you will be required to agree to a non-disclosure agreement" ... "based on a variety of criteria" ... "at the sole discretion of iRex Technologies" -- if they really take themselves so serious as if they were a multi-billion conglomerate, it's fine with me -- but in this case, for God's sake, please don't tell us you need so much time to "clean up" some sources that are by 99% taken from public open-source repositories.

scotty1024 · 09-26-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali

They are in non-compliance right now. Their announcement is essentially "Yes, we will stop breaking the law somewhere in the future" - and it's over two (three?) months old!

Now that they've announced their "beta tester" program they have in essence officially moved us iLiadian's from beta testers into commercial production users. And thus the product into commercial status.

Under those conditions some iLiad owner simply needs to officially request the source in writing and if iRex refuses that request: they're non-compliant.

I haven't seen anything in the GPL about us having to wait for some future date. We request, they cough it up.

CommanderROR · 09-26-2006, 06:32 PM

OK guys, take a deep breath...:-)

I think the guys over at iRex aren't trying to violate anything...they're just sitting there and trying to make the Iliad ready for the general public. If they release their sources now, they'll have to release updated sources about every 2 weeks when the code porgresses. So I see little sense in doing that right now.

However, I find it deeply disturbing, that it's now end of september and we still have only minimal power-saving and only one really useable File-Viewer...and things are moving so slowly that it seems like it'll be 2007 before the device is more or less ready.

Seen from that perspective, I'd say iRex should give a true dev-kit to a larger group of open-sourcers and let them try their luck with alternat OS builds...but that's something no company will do...ever...and a real pity that is.

Look at the Nokia 770...they let the community do (part of ) their work, and the 770 is really up and running better than ever from what I hear...so iRex, don't miss your chance because you are afraid to ask for help...:-)

doctorow · 09-27-2006, 04:23 AM

Someone sounded quite mad over at the iRex forum:

Mikhail Kostousov
Hello!

I have a question to iRex.
You are using GPL Linux in your device, also, you are using GPL programs like minimo, xpdf etc..
Why there is no sources published?!!!
I have bought iLiad, and there was no sources in package, no sources in my irex account, and I still don't have access to gpl sources of iLiad. Why?
This is violation of GPL License, because everyone must take access to sources as soon as he bought the product! I know, that there is notation on the site that you will publish it, but it must be at the same time as product is began to sell.
Yes, this is site for iRex and all about iRex. But please, look at the Sony! They published sources at the same day as they begin to sell it!
Things like this brakes (even breaks) growth of the iLiad's community...

ali · 09-27-2006, 09:05 AM

I just noticed sony already published their sources, and starts selling soon - for $350. If adding customized software to the Sony reader will be easy, that's where the crowd of open source developers will be. That makes the Iliad the dead horse.

I chose the Iliad over the Sony for three reasons: 1 - open source developments; 2 - larger display for A4 content; 3 - wlan to add content without carrying cabling around.

And right now it looks all three turn out to be false assumptions. I guess there'll be an Iliad on eBay, once user reports on the Sony come in.

NatCh · 09-27-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali

I just noticed sony already published their sources, and starts selling soon - for $350.

Started selling early yesterday morning, actually.

There are a couple of Hands On reviews over on the Sony forum too, if you're interested, ali. They're not true User Reports, but I think they're pretty comprehensive for what they are, if I do say so myself.

b_k · 09-27-2006, 11:26 AM

Looks like Sonys lawyers told them what's good for them.

I hadn't expected Sony to release the sources that quickly.

NatCh · 09-27-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b_k

I hadn't expected Sony to release the sources that quickly.

Most of it seems to be directly descended from the Librie' software, so the source may have been more or less out there already.

And I'm sure you're quite correct about Sony's lawyers' likely comments.

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09-26-2006, 01:27 PM	#32
VillageReader Evangelist Posts: 430 Karma: 2718 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Iliad	Hmm, I was thinking more like DC Comics.

09-26-2006, 02:09 PM	#34
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	I think the reason for the general disappointment here is that iRex has the guts to ask interested individuals to sign an NDA, while, on the other hand, they fail to comply to GPL.

09-26-2006, 02:42 PM	#38
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	Personally, I am not accusing them, or I would have mailed them directly. It's been also not an issue until now. I may have my doubts that "cleaning sources" would take several months, but that's again something else. What I am saying is that some individuals may be offended by the whole overdramatization of the beta test... "you will be required to agree to a non-disclosure agreement" ... "based on a variety of criteria" ... "at the sole discretion of iRex Technologies" -- if they really take themselves so serious as if they were a multi-billion conglomerate, it's fine with me -- but in this case, for God's sake, please don't tell us you need so much time to "clean up" some sources that are by 99% taken from public open-source repositories.

09-26-2006, 06:32 PM	#40
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	OK guys, take a deep breath...:-) I think the guys over at iRex aren't trying to violate anything...they're just sitting there and trying to make the Iliad ready for the general public. If they release their sources now, they'll have to release updated sources about every 2 weeks when the code porgresses. So I see little sense in doing that right now. However, I find it deeply disturbing, that it's now end of september and we still have only minimal power-saving and only one really useable File-Viewer...and things are moving so slowly that it seems like it'll be 2007 before the device is more or less ready. Seen from that perspective, I'd say iRex should give a true dev-kit to a larger group of open-sourcers and let them try their luck with alternat OS builds...but that's something no company will do...ever...and a real pity that is. Look at the Nokia 770...they let the community do (part of ) their work, and the 770 is really up and running better than ever from what I hear...so iRex, don't miss your chance because you are afraid to ask for help...:-)

09-27-2006, 04:23 AM	#41
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	Someone sounded quite mad over at the iRex forum: Mikhail Kostousov Hello! I have a question to iRex. You are using GPL Linux in your device, also, you are using GPL programs like minimo, xpdf etc.. Why there is no sources published?!!! I have bought iLiad, and there was no sources in package, no sources in my irex account, and I still don't have access to gpl sources of iLiad. Why? This is violation of GPL License, because everyone must take access to sources as soon as he bought the product! I know, that there is notation on the site that you will publish it, but it must be at the same time as product is began to sell. Yes, this is site for iRex and all about iRex. But please, look at the Sony! They published sources at the same day as they begin to sell it! Things like this brakes (even breaks) growth of the iLiad's community...

09-27-2006, 09:05 AM	#42
ali Addict Posts: 302 Karma: 116 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Iliad, dude!	I just noticed sony already published their sources, and starts selling soon - for $350. If adding customized software to the Sony reader will be easy, that's where the crowd of open source developers will be. That makes the Iliad the dead horse. I chose the Iliad over the Sony for three reasons: 1 - open source developments; 2 - larger display for A4 content; 3 - wlan to add content without carrying cabling around. And right now it looks all three turn out to be false assumptions. I guess there'll be an Iliad on eBay, once user reports on the Sony come in.

09-27-2006, 11:26 AM	#44
b_k Übernerd Posts: 238 Karma: 74 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Device: iRex iLiad	Looks like Sonys lawyers told them what's good for them. I hadn't expected Sony to release the sources that quickly.

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