When can we expect a price drop?

[segatang]

I prefer to a $400~500 iLiad.
^_^

[THJahar]

Well it's september now. My only hope for a price drop is the launch of the Sony reader. Whilst the lower spec and functionality of the sony means that irex will never match the price but i'm guessing that the vast disparity between the two will force their hands to do at least a reduction so that the iliad will be at least a choice for consumers.
Here's hoping sony pull their finger out and release soon.

[scotty1024]

Originally Posted by THJahar

Well it's september now. My only hope for a price drop is the launch of the Sony reader. Whilst the lower spec and functionality of the sony means that irex will never match the price but i'm guessing that the vast disparity between the two will force their hands to do at least a reduction so that the iliad will be at least a choice for consumers.
Here's hoping sony pull their finger out and release soon.

Look on the bright side, for $550 EUR, if they ship you a bad unit, they can afford to ship you a new one.

[CommanderROR]

So here we go about the DRM issue again...
The way I see it, the books offered on p2p networks and on irc aren't actually ripped ebooks, at least not the majority. Most of them are scanned and often even proofread. So if the big guys out there would open their eyes, they could see that paper is no guard against piracy.
the trouble is that the big companies will probably never understand that. They want to make their books DRM books.
OK, fine...I'll take the books, DRM and all.
But I'll expect them to be cheaper, a LOT cheaper than regular paper-books.

This is due to 2 factors:
Nr. 1 is of course that I paid a lot of money for a reading device...
Nr.2 is even more important: the books actually are cheaper to "produce" and to distribute. And having books in "non-physical form" (not on special DRM SD cards or something) won't prevent bookstores from making a profit.

On the contrary!
Today, a bookstore can only provide a very small selection of books due to the simple fact that books take up a lot of space (another reason why I bought the iliad...). With ebooks, all they need is a computer terminal, or a couple of terminals where people can browse through the book-collection and read excerpts. Then the cutomer decides which book he'd like, hands over the money and gets his book directly to the memory-card (card reader/writer devices are soooo cheap these days...) of his ebook device.

The only trouble: With different screen-sizes, different device capabilities and of course different reader software with different DRM support, you'd have to have every book available in lots of configurations. That is where things really fall apart. You either get the itunes/ipod thing which is limited to a very specific range of devices, or you get the mp3/all devices thing that is very nice and compatible, but just isn't anywhere close to being secure from piracy, and making "sharing" too easy is not a good idea either.
So, what we need is a "standard" for devices, something they all have in common, maybe a unique identifier number and a generic, multi-platform reader software. If we can get that, then all we have to worry about is screen-size. This i something of an unsolveable riddle, since the text can be easily reflowed to fit any screen, but some books just won't "work" if that happens. Things like illustrations, footnotes, "word-pictures" could be lost in this process and that could in some cases destroy the advantages of ebooks...I'm a bit out of ideas when it comes to this issue...but maybe something could be done there as well...

Now...to get back to the topic of price-drops...I think it'll be a while before any of the devices now available or in development get cheap. Only if the whole chain starts coming together and the market share of ebooks starts to grow (which it will only do if certain problems like those mentioned above are removed) will anyting happen at all. Until then, we, the early adopters and beta-testers will have to do whatever we can to drive the companies lie iRex, Jinke, Sony and others in the right direction.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

So here we go about the DRM issue again...
Most of them are scanned and often even proofread. So if the big guys out there would open their eyes, they could see that paper is no guard against piracy.
.

Right on, I've always believed so. What they are afraid of is that there Will be more piracy due to the fact that they are releasing content.

But let's not forget something very important in the debate. E-book readers are not only for books. It is proven that Joe Average does not read books, but he might use a reader of some kind for work. This is why I would not base a reader or its market on books alone.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

What they are afraid of is that there Will be more piracy due to the fact that they are releasing content.

Hmm. You've inspired a new thought for me (I'm sure it's been kicked around before) -- how much present, paper-based piracey do y'all suppose is based on wanting a text electronically, as opposed to just wanting it free?

Personally, I would not think of stealing a paper book, but I would be ... less resistant to downloading an "illegal" electronic copy of a book I already own.

Anybody have any kind of reasonable guess on that?

[scotty1024]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Right on, I've always believed so. What they are afraid of is that there Will be more piracy due to the fact that they are releasing content.

The other issue that hasn't been mentioned here is: publishing books is a low margin business. Historically one doesn't choose a career in book publishing to get fabulously wealthy. Publishing books is about one step away from putting out a tin cup and playing a violin in Times Square.

However, the public perception is that ebooks should cost significantly less than paper books because well, there's no paper right? And most of the cost of a book is the paper, ink and printing right?

Most of the cost of a Hilary Clinton book is: Hilary Clinton.

The big draw to publishers for DRM is the potential for shutting down secondary sales (used book stores) and "fair use" (lending books to friends, libraries and universities/schools) Unfortunately, elimination of the secondary and fair use drain could more than double profitability for the publishers. So they do have a natural fascination with achieving this.

Now all they need is for us to roll over and play nice doggy for them.

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by scotty1024

The big draw to publishers for DRM is the potential for shutting down secondary sales (used book stores) and "fair use" (lending books to friends, libraries and universities/schools) Unfortunately, elimination of the secondary and fair use drain could more than double profitability for the publishers. So they do have a natural fascination with achieving this.

Now all they need is for us to roll over and play nice doggy for them.

If this is so people will stand by their books and never come to readers exept us geeks. We really have to make them understand that reading is not only books

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by scotty1024

Most of the cost of a Hilary Clinton book is: Hilary Clinton.

I'm not going to touch that one directly ....

I will say that I think most of the cost of a David Weber or John Ringo book is most likely not David Weber or John Ringo.

On the other hand, if it were, the prices would bother me less.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by scotty1024

However, the public perception is that ebooks should cost significantly less than paper books because well, there's no paper right? And most of the cost of a book is the paper, ink and printing right?

Most of the cost of a Hilary Clinton book is: Hilary Clinton.

The public opinion is correct.

People inside the publishing industry have told us the numbers. On that $8 paperpack, the author gets about $0.70. I would assume that for hardcovers they would get a slightly higher percentage.

But the idea that the author gets the majority of the money is pure fantasy. But as NatCh states so well:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I will say that I think most of the cost of a David Weber or John Ringo book is most likely not David Weber or John Ringo.

On the other hand, if it were, the prices would bother me less.

I think that most of us readers think that. If the author gets the majority of what we pay for a physical book, the prices would bother us less.

And I think that I am correct in saying that it bothers us even more when places like eReader ask us to pay hardcover prices for an eBook - and we can be pretty sure that the author doesn't see any extra money from that eBook sale.

That's why I believe that publishers are irrelevant in the eBook market. Authors can take their books directly to us readers, or through a low-cost intermediary like Fictionwise, and make more per book than paper books - and still charge us readers less than pBooks.

[Liviu_5]

I follow the ebook-community forum on Yahoo

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ebook-community

and there are some very knowledgeable independent ebook publishers participating and shedding light on the ways of this business, and it's not that simple as it would seem (for example Fictionwise takes ~50% cut and that is comparable to what Ingram or Amazon take for pbooks). The ultimate problem is that for viability you need visibility and numbers and sellers/distributors like Fictionwise that provide it have the upper hand...

Liviu

Originally Posted by rlauzon

That's why I believe that publishers are irrelevant in the eBook market. Authors can take their books directly to us readers, or through a low-cost intermediary like Fictionwise, and make more per book than paper books - and still charge us readers less than pBooks.

[pdam]

From ComanderROR
Nr.2 is even more important: the books actually are cheaper to "produce" and to distribute. And having books in "non-physical form" (not on special DRM SD cards or something) won't prevent bookstores from making a profit.

Just talking of the pure cost of production and selling - it's actually not always the case that the e-book is significantly cheaper to produce and sell than the paper version ... In France for instance tax and competition laws actually make it a pretty unattractive medium fo rpublishers to produce in ...

[THJahar]

Well it looks like it's up to me to throw some 'kindle' onto the fire.
Since both sony and now Amazon are intent on bringing out readers for ebooks, Irex are officially staring at a HUUUUGE loss of potential market. They have only two choices now:
either bring down the price of the Iliad to a competitive level PRIOR to the launch of both the Kindle and the Sony (So they can get a foothold against these 200 pound gorillas)
Or Start production of a non-penabled machine at a comparitive price and spec. to compete on a level playing field with these basic readers.
Now I'm guessing that due to the production levels of the current Iliad that they would find it more difficult to retool their production lines to cater for a new product than increase the production of their existing line.
So here's hoping we see a price drop pre-christmas (for those Christmas sale pick-ups)

[yvanleterrible]

Originally Posted by THJahar

Or Start production of a non-penabled machine at a comparitive price and spec. to compete on a level playing field with these basic readers.

That is really their best bet!

[NatCh]

Um, remember that iRex's main target is corporated customers, they're only selling units to individuals due to great public outcry. I don't know how much they consider themselves to be competing with Sony/HanLin/Amazon, however much we might view them as competing products.