The death of print ... (or, does DRM drive you to piracy?) - Page 3

theducks · 12-18-2009, 08:38 PM

#3
DRM is the same to me as only ever publishing the title in HB ="No Sale".

Except in a few cases where the Author has specifically (stupidly) requested DRM or NO e-publication, the publisher has failed the Author by not actively perusing product sales to all customers. 63% have stated that they will NOT buy the title if DRM'd .

They have excluded 63% of a Market's potential sales. Only the Author gets short changed on royalties in the end.
I also think "Device brand locking" is just as evil .
Support publishers like Baen who offer e-books that you can read in many formats (and even go back and get it in a different one, later)

HansTWN · 12-18-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And in many cases, that's a crime with substantial penalties attached.

Can you quote any specific law? Besides, what are the damages? Sue me to recover a grand total of 0 bucks? The only one who could be in trouble is the store you buy from when you circumvented those restrictions and the American distributors who did not put airtight measures into place to prevent this. But if they can show good faith and some real effort, I am sure even they would get off free.

And it would look real good filing a lawsuit against a paying customer.

HansTWN · 12-18-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sianon

It could possibly be construed as smuggling given you are purchasing a product that is not legally available in your country of residence. Although smuggling was used historically as a means to deprive the government of it's taxes and thus the high penalties.

That may be true if you live in Singapore and Saudi Arabia or one of those other places with stringent censorship rules. Or for the tax hungry European countries. But then you would be guilty of smuggling even when you bought it while living in the US and then brought it in on your computer or reader when you moved there. In fact, you would even be guilty of smuggling if there were no regional restrictions from the US side for buying there! But for most countries, they couldn't care less.

Besides, following your train of thought, wouldn't you be guilty of smuggling stolen goods for downloading a pirated file?

sianon · 12-18-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

That may be true if you live in Singapore and Saudi Arabia or one of those other places with stringent censorship rules. Or for the tax hungry European countries. But then you would be guilty of smuggling even when you bought it while living in the US and then brought it in on your computer or reader when you moved there. In fact, you would even be guilty of smuggling if there were no regional restrictions from the US side for buying there! But for most countries, they couldn't care less.

Besides, following your train of thought, wouldn't you be guilty of smuggling stolen goods for downloading a pirated file?

Sorry Hans, obviously the tongue firmly in cheek did not translate in what I wrote... I get a little fed up with this constant thread of it being a criminal act to by pass ridiculous geographical restrictions on purchasing a product I can legally purchase here in a different format.

HansTWN · 12-18-2009, 10:59 PM

Better add a wink next time! Anyway, these arguments you mentioned are being brought forward by people who want to justify (to their own consciences, I guess) taking things for free and thus try to discredit any "legal" method.

m-reader · 12-19-2009, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I cannot choose any of the options. I would refuse to purchase and wait for a version with DRM that I can remove. But I would not go for the pirated file.

Ditto. Loaded poll questions.
There should be an option "Try to find non-DRM legal copy, otherwise buy/don't buy DRM". This is the option I would choose.

tompe · 12-19-2009, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Better add a wink next time! Anyway, these arguments you mentioned are being brought forward by people who want to justify (to their own consciences, I guess) taking things for free and thus try to discredit any "legal" method.

I think that is your misinterpretation. Can you give a pointer to an example of this?

HarryT · 12-19-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I cannot choose any alternative since I refuse to buy a DRM infested book. It does not matter that I can remove the DRM. I do not want to support DRM books which I do if i buy them.

I seem to recall that you bought a Mobipocket dictionary for your Gen3. Did that not have DRM?

Stitchawl · 12-19-2009, 06:20 AM

Obviously Diogenes never visited MobileRead forums. ;o)

Stitchawl

phenomshel · 12-19-2009, 01:44 PM

I voted option 1 - purchase the title anyway, as my last few bouts of purchasing have been since Kindle for PC came out and I can now get some of those titles I didn't have access to before. They're available nowhere else, and unfortunately, the reason for that is that all but one are Topaz. I don't want to buy more print books, not only do I have a small house, but I love the infinite backupability (yeah, I know, but it's a word NOW, *grin*) of electronic formats. So, I took a gamble that either A. Amazon won't go out of business and that B. someone will eventually crack Topaz, and bought them anyway.

Sonist · 12-19-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-reader

Ditto. Loaded poll questions.
There should be an option "Try to find non-DRM legal copy, otherwise buy/don't buy DRM". This is the option I would choose.

People with wings are so rare, I just forgot about them....

IMO, people who will not buy an ebook because of DRM, but will buy the paper book instead, are a publisher's dream, and an added incentive for maintaining DRM.

Unfortunately, only the "pirating" alternative has the teeth, to force lower prices and DRM removal, for ebooks. Just like it did for music.

HansTWN · 12-19-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

People with wings are so rare, I just forgot about them....

IMO, people who will not buy an ebook because of DRM, but will buy the paper book instead, are a publisher's dream, and an added incentive for maintaining DRM.

Unfortunately, only the "pirating" alternative has the teeth, to force lower prices and DRM removal, for ebooks. Just like it did for music.

This doesn't work for several reasons:

1.)They think that whoever downloads pirated books won't pay no matter what.

2.)They will never even know that they actually lost a sale -- unless you write to them.

3.)It will just make them think that they need even stronger DRM lockdowns.

The only thing that has a chance of working is refusing to buy, refusing to pirate, AND letting them know why.

tompe · 12-19-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I seem to recall that you bought a Mobipocket dictionary for your Gen3. Did that not have DRM?

I still feel bad about this immoral action. It will not be repeated.

DawnFalcon · 12-19-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

IMO, people who will not buy an ebook because of DRM, but will buy the paper book instead, are a publisher's dream, and an added incentive for maintaining DRM.

Unfortunately, only the "pirating" alternative has the teeth, to force lower prices and DRM removal, for ebooks. Just like it did for music.

Nuts. I buy SECOND HAND.

Not only do I have the book,
I have the book legally, and not only that,
I've paid money into an ecosystem which cuts out the publisher.

Don't tell me it doesn't have teeth. It has fangs.

m-reader · 12-20-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

People with wings are so rare, I just forgot about them....

IMO, people who will not buy an ebook because of DRM, but will buy the paper book instead, are a publisher's dream, and an added incentive for maintaining DRM.

Unfortunately, only the "pirating" alternative has the teeth, to force lower prices and DRM removal, for ebooks. Just like it did for music.

Serious? I would have thought that most people would choose this line of thinking - get non-DRM if not available choose to buy DRM or not (perhaps even choose the paperback edition in that case).
I know there are many people here who feel very strongly about DRM and I respect that. However, many other people just want to read the book - while preferably avoiding breaking any laws.

View Poll Results: If a title has DRM which you cannot strip, do you:
Still purchase the title, even if locked to a device/server	45	23.56%
Look for alternatives, including "pirate" sites, but if not found, purchase the DRM-ed title	30	15.71%
Refuse to purchase, either wait for a breakable DRM version, or "pirate"	116	60.73%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

12-18-2009, 10:59 PM	#35
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Better add a wink next time! Anyway, these arguments you mentioned are being brought forward by people who want to justify (to their own consciences, I guess) taking things for free and thus try to discredit any "legal" method. Last edited by HansTWN; 12-18-2009 at 11:04 PM.

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12-18-2009, 08:38 PM	#31
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 31,082 Karma: 60358908 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	#3 DRM is the same to me as only ever publishing the title in HB ="No Sale". Except in a few cases where the Author has specifically (stupidly) requested DRM or NO e-publication, the publisher has failed the Author by not actively perusing product sales to all customers. 63% have stated that they will NOT buy the title if DRM'd . They have excluded 63% of a Market's potential sales. Only the Author gets short changed on royalties in the end. I also think "Device brand locking" is just as evil . Support publishers like Baen who offer e-books that you can read in many formats (and even go back and get it in a different one, later)

12-19-2009, 06:20 AM	#39
Stitchawl Opsimath Posts: 12,344 Karma: 187123287 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chiang Mai, Northern Thailand Device: Sony PRS-650, iPhone 5, Kobo Glo, Sony PRS-350, iPad, Samsung Galaxy	Obviously Diogenes never visited MobileRead forums. ;o) Stitchawl

12-19-2009, 01:44 PM	#40
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	I voted option 1 - purchase the title anyway, as my last few bouts of purchasing have been since Kindle for PC came out and I can now get some of those titles I didn't have access to before. They're available nowhere else, and unfortunately, the reason for that is that all but one are Topaz. I don't want to buy more print books, not only do I have a small house, but I love the infinite backupability (yeah, I know, but it's a word NOW, grin) of electronic formats. So, I took a gamble that either A. Amazon won't go out of business and that B. someone will eventually crack Topaz, and bought them anyway.

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