USAToday on publishers' backlash - Page 3

lilac_jive · 12-13-2009, 10:40 AM

Stupid publishers.

I very very rarely buy hardcovers. I bought the Harry Potter books in hardcover, have bought some bargain books in hardcover, and then a handful more when I wanted a good shelf copy (LOTR being the main example). They are just too expensive.

Now that I have my Reader, the ebook prices of the hardcovers are much more affordable, so I don't have to wait. I've bought dozens of books in ebook "hardcover" that I would have waited to buy in paperback.

So they are actually making more money off me. Idiots.

poohbear_nc · 12-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Hmmm ... let's do the math:

100 hardcovers sold at full price for $17.95 immediately (and then 900 remaindered copies at $2.00 - $5.00 or less)
vs
1000 ebooks sold at $9.99 immediately
vs
Readers boycotting your publishing house (and its authors) over your total lack (or refusal) of understanding of the ebook market, and of readers in general.

lilac_jive · 12-13-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Hmmm ... let's do the math:

100 hardcovers sold at full price for $17.95 immediately (and then 900 remaindered copies at $2.00 - $5.00 or less)
vs
1000 ebooks sold at $9.99 immediately
vs
Readers boycotting your publishing house (and its authors) over your total lack (or refusal) of understanding of the ebook market, and of readers in general.

On an interesting side note, I learned recently that publishers do not pay authors any royalties on remaindered books.

Crusader · 12-13-2009, 01:47 PM

I can't really afford to buy hardcovers. Over here they go for a average of $35 or more. The only books I buy have been from the bargain sections or 2nd hand bookshops. With ebooks I'd be more than willing to pay around $10 for new releases. So it's definitely not a loss of hardback sales when it comes to my buying habits.

whitearrow · 12-13-2009, 02:01 PM

Any hardcovers I bought in my pre-Kindle days were from Costco at $14 or so, or book club editions. Waiting? I'm really good at waiting for those book club omnibus 3-in-1 editions of Jim Butcher or Laurell K. Hamilton (when she was still good). So if publishers think I'm going to buy a full price $30 hardback the day it comes out, they are sadly mistaken. For series that I already read, I will keep track and be sure to buy the Kindle eds. when they do come out, but if it's a new book or author, there's much less of a chance I'm going to remember to check back later to see that the e-book edition has been released.

rwizard · 12-13-2009, 03:50 PM

Well, I almost never buy hard cover because of the price. They may not make as much from ebooks as hardcovers per sale, but they make more on them per sale than paper backs. It seems to me that if they get their act together that the volume of ebooks would make up for their reduced profit per book. Also, if they are tracking hard back sales and ebook saled over the last couple of years, unless they have been polling people buying ebooks to find out if they would have bought the hard back edition if they were not buying the ebook edition, you could easily have 2 separate groups of people you are talking about even though one group is having significant growth at the same time that the other group is having significant decline. The scenario follows:

groupe one (hard cover buyers): Hard cover books are expensive and with the economy going down the cost cannot be justified (This is actually likely since the economy has been getting worse during the same time ebook readers have been getting popular). This group generally buys hard cover books because they like to have the physical book or have to have the book when it first comes out (presumably, this second group would be the group the publishers are referring to and are attempting to target). I could be wrong, but I believe that the larger part of this segment is the group that wants to have the hardback book in their collection. In any event, if convenience and/or price was the major factor in their decision, they would wait for the paper back book.

group 2 (have to have the latest gadget, want more convenient reading): This group includes techno geeks (I include myself in this category) and people that do not want to lug around the hard bound book because it is inconvenient (I think allot of us fall into both of these categories and pretty much all of us fall into the second category).In either case it is not likely that we would buy the hard bound book.

I suppose there is a 3rd category, those that want the hard cover for their collection and the ebook for convenience. Of course this segment is not a factor unless they are not buying the hard cover because of the economy.

That is my opinion of what is likely. Of course, I do not have any hard data to back this up, just anecdotal evidence from these forums

fugazied · 12-13-2009, 04:11 PM

I am pretty sure that despite the fact an e-book takes about 5 cents to duplicate, store and distribute (as opposed to $5 to do the same with a print book), they want to charge $19.99 for them.

Solicitous · 12-13-2009, 04:39 PM

I for one would be happy to pay the same price for an ebook as the hardcover...provided I get the same rights with the ebook as I would the hardcover. I can lend and re-sell the hardcover after reading it. If the publishers will let me do the same WITH EASE with the ebook I will pay, but they wont so they need to price accordingly.

Publishers need to realise that with ebooks we are buying a licence to use the product, where as a pbook we are actually buying a product (keeping in respect to copyright). So $10 is a fair price when you look at the difference in what we as a consumer are actually purchasing.

kindlekitten · 12-13-2009, 05:15 PM

I've bought so many hardbacks that it could probably fund a couple of scholarship programs. maybe someone's retirement. I refuse to buy anymore fiction hardbacks.

Mobile Mason · 12-13-2009, 05:20 PM

Just as the Catholic Church was against printing, as it destroyed their monopoly over information, so do the publishers of books.

Readers VS. Publishers, I wonder who the winner will be? :L

Mr. Goodbar · 12-13-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjk

This really does show their entrenched thinking on the issue. Cannibalization isn't in itself a bad thing. (For example, Apple cannibalized sales of its iPhone with the iPod Touch-Steve Jobs responded that if anyone was going to cannibalize Apple, it would be Apple)

Rather than trying to protect an outmoded sales model by trying to stop "cannibalization", they should be finding innovative ways to encourage it on their terms. Because in the end, a sale is a sale. Or isn't, if you alienate your market.

You're absolutely correct. Smart companies/leaders cannibalize their own business before somebody else does. Another great example going back a few years is HP developing and bringing to market the inkjet printer technology which was in direct competition to their dominant laserjet printers. All you have to do is look at the profit that HP has derived from ink as well as their market position to know how that one came out.

kindlekitten · 12-13-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobile Mason

Just as the Catholic Church was against printing, as it destroyed their monopoly over information, so do the publishers of books.

Readers VS. Publishers, I wonder who the winner will be? :L

wonderful comparison!

JSWolf · 12-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

What's more, "As e-books grow as a category, there will be cannibalization," Epps says. "The early adopter buying an e-reader device happens to be the same customer who would have bought a hardcover book."

I didn't buy many hardcovers before my Sony Reader. I bought the Sony so I could have books with me and not worry about finishing one and not having another to start.

And I would not have bought Under the Dome in hardcover had I not had a reader. All the Stephen King hardcovers I own came from library sales. Epps has it all ass backwards. We buy our readers so we can read eBooks and not hardcovers.

basschick · 12-25-2009, 07:32 AM

they wish.

most of the folks i know in person who read ebooks were the very folks - like me - who avoided hardbacks because of space issues. when you buy a lot of new books, and tend to buy those you're likely to want to keep, you're pretty limited. add to that the wonderful, cheap and often otherwise unobtainable books in used bookstores, 'cause i used to run into lots of regular readers in our local used stores who rarely bought new books at all. and in this economy, their sales were bound to drop. regardless of anything else, a lot of people can't afford $25 books anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

What's more, "As e-books grow as a category, there will be cannibalization," Epps says. "The early adopter buying an e-reader device happens to be the same customer who would have bought a hardcover book."

rhadin · 12-25-2009, 10:34 AM

Unlike JSWolf and basschick, I bought a lot of hardcover books before I bought my Sony Reader and I continue to buy a lot of hardcover books still; in fact, my buying of hardcovers has increased, not decreased, since I bought my Sony.

What has changed in my buying habits is now, in addition to buying the hardcovers, I also buy a lot of ebooks. My ebook purchases are of authors and genres that I would not have previously bought in any form.

The failure of the publishing world is that it hasn't undertaken any comprehensive studies of book buying habits to determine what effect ebooks really have on the market. In my case, inexpensive ebooks has increased the amount of money I spend on books and expanded the field of what I would buy, without diminishing my hardcover purchases. In fact, ebooks have increased the number of hardcovers I buy. For example, until I got my Sony I had never read a single book authored by David Weber. I always found the cover artwork and the dustjacket descriptions off-putting. But I was willing to give him a try from the Baen free library and discovered that I really like his style. Now I buy his books in hardcover as soon as they are available.

A comprehensive study of book buyers and book-buying habits would be money well spent by publishers. If nothing else, there would be at least facts from which to work rather than anecdotal evidence.

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12-13-2009, 10:40 AM	#31
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	Stupid publishers. I very very rarely buy hardcovers. I bought the Harry Potter books in hardcover, have bought some bargain books in hardcover, and then a handful more when I wanted a good shelf copy (LOTR being the main example). They are just too expensive. Now that I have my Reader, the ebook prices of the hardcovers are much more affordable, so I don't have to wait. I've bought dozens of books in ebook "hardcover" that I would have waited to buy in paperback. So they are actually making more money off me. Idiots.

12-13-2009, 12:26 PM	#32
poohbear_nc Bah! Humbug! Posts: 63,398 Karma: 135239851 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	Hmmm ... let's do the math: 100 hardcovers sold at full price for $17.95 immediately (and then 900 remaindered copies at $2.00 - $5.00 or less) vs 1000 ebooks sold at $9.99 immediately vs Readers boycotting your publishing house (and its authors) over your total lack (or refusal) of understanding of the ebook market, and of readers in general.

12-13-2009, 01:47 PM	#34
Crusader Space Cadet Posts: 1,180 Karma: 4030536 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Africa Device: Sony PRS-T1, Cybook Opus, Kobo Glo	I can't really afford to buy hardcovers. Over here they go for a average of $35 or more. The only books I buy have been from the bargain sections or 2nd hand bookshops. With ebooks I'd be more than willing to pay around $10 for new releases. So it's definitely not a loss of hardback sales when it comes to my buying habits.

12-13-2009, 02:01 PM	#35
whitearrow Guru Posts: 808 Karma: 2260766 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Kindle Oasis 2	Any hardcovers I bought in my pre-Kindle days were from Costco at $14 or so, or book club editions. Waiting? I'm really good at waiting for those book club omnibus 3-in-1 editions of Jim Butcher or Laurell K. Hamilton (when she was still good). So if publishers think I'm going to buy a full price $30 hardback the day it comes out, they are sadly mistaken. For series that I already read, I will keep track and be sure to buy the Kindle eds. when they do come out, but if it's a new book or author, there's much less of a chance I'm going to remember to check back later to see that the e-book edition has been released.

12-13-2009, 03:50 PM	#36
rwizard Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 366 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Utah Device: iPhone, waiting for reviews on the Notionink Adam	Well, I almost never buy hard cover because of the price. They may not make as much from ebooks as hardcovers per sale, but they make more on them per sale than paper backs. It seems to me that if they get their act together that the volume of ebooks would make up for their reduced profit per book. Also, if they are tracking hard back sales and ebook saled over the last couple of years, unless they have been polling people buying ebooks to find out if they would have bought the hard back edition if they were not buying the ebook edition, you could easily have 2 separate groups of people you are talking about even though one group is having significant growth at the same time that the other group is having significant decline. The scenario follows: groupe one (hard cover buyers): Hard cover books are expensive and with the economy going down the cost cannot be justified (This is actually likely since the economy has been getting worse during the same time ebook readers have been getting popular). This group generally buys hard cover books because they like to have the physical book or have to have the book when it first comes out (presumably, this second group would be the group the publishers are referring to and are attempting to target). I could be wrong, but I believe that the larger part of this segment is the group that wants to have the hardback book in their collection. In any event, if convenience and/or price was the major factor in their decision, they would wait for the paper back book. group 2 (have to have the latest gadget, want more convenient reading): This group includes techno geeks (I include myself in this category) and people that do not want to lug around the hard bound book because it is inconvenient (I think allot of us fall into both of these categories and pretty much all of us fall into the second category).In either case it is not likely that we would buy the hard bound book. I suppose there is a 3rd category, those that want the hard cover for their collection and the ebook for convenience. Of course this segment is not a factor unless they are not buying the hard cover because of the economy. That is my opinion of what is likely. Of course, I do not have any hard data to back this up, just anecdotal evidence from these forums

12-13-2009, 04:11 PM	#37
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	I am pretty sure that despite the fact an e-book takes about 5 cents to duplicate, store and distribute (as opposed to $5 to do the same with a print book), they want to charge $19.99 for them.

12-13-2009, 04:39 PM	#38
Solicitous Wizard Posts: 1,434 Karma: 1525776 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: TAS, Australia Device: Astak Pocket Pro (Black), 2 x Kindle WiFi (Graphite), iPod Touch 4G	I for one would be happy to pay the same price for an ebook as the hardcover...provided I get the same rights with the ebook as I would the hardcover. I can lend and re-sell the hardcover after reading it. If the publishers will let me do the same WITH EASE with the ebook I will pay, but they wont so they need to price accordingly. Publishers need to realise that with ebooks we are buying a licence to use the product, where as a pbook we are actually buying a product (keeping in respect to copyright). So $10 is a fair price when you look at the difference in what we as a consumer are actually purchasing.

12-13-2009, 05:15 PM	#39
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	I've bought so many hardbacks that it could probably fund a couple of scholarship programs. maybe someone's retirement. I refuse to buy anymore fiction hardbacks.

12-13-2009, 05:20 PM	#40
Mobile Mason Resident Anglophile Posts: 76 Karma: 460 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio, United States Device: Kindle 2	Just as the Catholic Church was against printing, as it destroyed their monopoly over information, so do the publishers of books. Readers VS. Publishers, I wonder who the winner will be? :L

12-25-2009, 10:34 AM	#45
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	Unlike JSWolf and basschick, I bought a lot of hardcover books before I bought my Sony Reader and I continue to buy a lot of hardcover books still; in fact, my buying of hardcovers has increased, not decreased, since I bought my Sony. What has changed in my buying habits is now, in addition to buying the hardcovers, I also buy a lot of ebooks. My ebook purchases are of authors and genres that I would not have previously bought in any form. The failure of the publishing world is that it hasn't undertaken any comprehensive studies of book buying habits to determine what effect ebooks really have on the market. In my case, inexpensive ebooks has increased the amount of money I spend on books and expanded the field of what I would buy, without diminishing my hardcover purchases. In fact, ebooks have increased the number of hardcovers I buy. For example, until I got my Sony I had never read a single book authored by David Weber. I always found the cover artwork and the dustjacket descriptions off-putting. But I was willing to give him a try from the Baen free library and discovered that I really like his style. Now I buy his books in hardcover as soon as they are available. A comprehensive study of book buyers and book-buying habits would be money well spent by publishers. If nothing else, there would be at least facts from which to work rather than anecdotal evidence.

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