Universities say no more Kindles till blind students can use it.....

[HarryT]

The issue appears to rest on whether or not universities are requiring the use of the Kindle, or simply offering it as an alternative to other methods. If the former, this is a reasonable complaint; if the latter, it appears to lack any merit.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

I don't think its good that they are going to deny students access to something that would be helpful to the majority simply because it would not be as useful to a minority.

I'm guessing that the schools probably don't have a say in it either. There are probably rules (if not laws) in place for public universities that anything they supply for their students have to be handicapped accessible, especially if they're required material for a course.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I do find this type of case to be wholly without merit. Yes, it's very unfortunate to be blind, but it's not Amazon's fault that somebody is, and they are surely under no "obligation" to make the Kindle usable by blind people any more than MP3 player manufacturers are under an obligation to make their devices usable by the deaf. It's certainly not "discrimination".

ohhhh! very good point!

Originally Posted by badbob001

So in the mean time, how do their visually impaired students read? All their existing text books have braille versions? Or less likely, audio versions? If it's so important to them, take the money that would have been spent on kindles and pay a tutor to read the books out loud. Or boycott the publisher of the books that don't offer braille or audio versions.

Soon we'll see people boycotting GPS devices because they don't allow the visually impaired to drive...

in my experience, universities go out of their way to accomadate special needs. one semester I broke both of my arms in a fall and had INCREDIBLE assistance in note taking and was able to dictate all of my tests and written work to a tutor. at the same school I helped a young lady who had a very strange short term memory issue. she could not remember where she parked, had to carry a map that she noted her parking location on every time, and she always had several "mentors" to make sure she got to the correct classes and was supplied with class notes. I was her history mentor for two years.

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

With the populace in general, and lawyers in particular, having such a propensity for litigation of every conceivable nature, it surprises me somewhat that there has not yet been a huge lawsuit over the fact that our currency is not more user-friendly to the visually impaired. Braille bills? Attachment 38847

you mean like how many times to fast food restaurants get gigged for not having braille intstructions at their drive-up windows? (actually watching someone visually impaired dealing with US bank notes is fascinating and humbling)

as far as law suits of every conceivable nature... a quadraplegic fellow here was just legally awarded the right to go hunting.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

actually watching someone visually impaired dealing with US bank notes is fascinating and humbling

OT, but how DO blind people manage with US bank notes, given that they are all the same size and shape? In most countries, each denomination is a different size, for that very reason.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

you mean like how many times to fast food restaurants get gigged for not having braille intstructions at their drive-up windows?.

Okay, you're making me giggle. Are *blind* people driving up to drive-up windows and being upset there is no braille?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OT, but how DO blind people manage with US bank notes, given that they are all the same size and shape? In most countries, each denomination is a different size, for that very reason.

From what I've heard, they get someone they trust to sort through the notes and fold them differently. Folded in half is a $1, folded lengthwise is a $5, folded some other way is a $10... etc.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OT, but how DO blind people manage with US bank notes, given that they are all the same size and shape? In most countries, each denomination is a different size, for that very reason.

they are taught very unique ways to fold them and keep them in their wallets. now of course this is totally dependent upon the person giving them the cash being honest. fortunately, finally we are seeing a little bit of difference in our bank notes.

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Okay, you're making me giggle. Are *blind* people driving up to drive-up windows and being upset there is no braille?

I don't know how it got started, but at one point in time, the final plack that is by the window where you pay and receive your goods, the one that has the contact info for the store, had braille contact info on it. I'm not sure if they all still do it, but I asked at the time (visions of interesting driving experiences were certainly dancing in my head!), and I was told that ALL of that information was required by law to be accessible to people of ALL reading abilities....

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

From what I've heard, they get someone they trust to sort through the notes and fold them differently. Folded in half is a $1, folded lengthwise is a $5, folded some other way is a $10... etc.

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Okay, you're making me giggle. Are *blind* people driving up to drive-up windows and being upset there is no braille?

Well, a blind driver's biggest problem is that they can't order lunch.

Actually, I don't think blind drivers are really all that uncommon. At least, it certainly seems that way every day when I drive in to work.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

you mean like how many times to fast food restaurants get gigged for not having braille intstructions at their drive-up windows?

That makes more sense when you realize that some fast-food restaurants close their doors in the early evening, but keep the drive-through open later, even for customers on foot.

[GntlmnBndt]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

From what I've heard, they get someone they trust to sort through the notes and fold them differently. Folded in half is a $1, folded lengthwise is a $5, folded some other way is a $10... etc.

There is a very interesting autobiography of a blind musician named Tom Sullivan which describes this and other adaptations. It is probably a bit dated since I think it was written in the late 70s or so. It is called "If You Could See What I Hear."

Actually the money issue is rather related to the drive-in braille issue in my mind. My dad, a cab driver, had a few regular fares who were blind. For them it was easier to do many of their errands through drive-in windows rather than get out of the cab to find their way to the braille-equipped ATM, for instance. With an ATM, they also felt fairly confident they were getting the money/denomination they expected and any mistakes were in fact honest ones, rather than depending on the honesty of a random teller. Finally, when they did deal with people at a drive-in, rather than a machine, they had someone they did regular business with (my dad) to verify the money or other goods they received.

The Bandit

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

From what I've heard, they get someone they trust to sort through the notes and fold them differently. Folded in half is a $1, folded lengthwise is a $5, folded some other way is a $10... etc.

That explains the curly £5 notes I keep getting.

[eGeezer]

Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...zjOJwD9BT4BD81

... On the other hand, it will probably fuel the frenzy of publishers who think TTS will cut into audio book sales. This is a case where it can be argued that the change would definitely cost them audio book sales!

An interest group representing the blind is filing a lawsuit for discrimination over the Kindles-in-universities program.

Don't have much to add, but that hasn't stopped me before.

It seems to me a lawsuit in this case is like two kids on a playground duking it out without actually having discussed what it is they are fighting about.

The link points out that Amazon is working to address the need for better access (TTS menus, a TTS on/off button?). Since it seems to be the publisher who has the final word on TTS, then the attorney gun (if needed) is pointed the wrong way.

The publishers certainly need to just get over themselves and get with the program, so maybe that's the point of the lawsuit. With Amazon happening to be the only one with an "ereader in Universities" program, someone feels the need to get the technology's attention right from the start and Amazon is the only one with a target on their back atm.

[fugazied]

Actually I believe there are accessibility standards which devices can optionally adhere to. Companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft do a pretty good job of adhering to these standards, hell even web designers know about these standards nd attempt to make websites which are sight impaired friendly.

The fact that Amazon hasn't is just another shortcoming with the device. If they have shortcomings, they shouldn't expect to be purchased by organizations who expect standards to be adhered to, like universities and government. Consumers aren't as demanding as large organizations who believe devices should work well and support accessibility standards.

This is a failure by Amazon, not by the universities.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by GntlmnBndt

There is a very interesting autobiography of a blind musician named Tom Sullivan which describes this and other adaptations. It is probably a bit dated since I think it was written in the late 70s or so. It is called "If You Could See What I Hear."

Actually the money issue is rather related to the drive-in braille issue in my mind. My dad, a cab driver, had a few regular fares who were blind. For them it was easier to do many of their errands through drive-in windows rather than get out of the cab to find their way to the braille-equipped ATM, for instance. With an ATM, they also felt fairly confident they were getting the money/denomination they expected and any mistakes were in fact honest ones, rather than depending on the honesty of a random teller. Finally, when they did deal with people at a drive-in, rather than a machine, they had someone they did regular business with (my dad) to verify the money or other goods they received.

The Bandit

A friend of mine, blind since birth, said he made it a practice to only do business in a 'populated' location. The only time he'd been cheated was when the only people in the store were him & the clerk. It wasn't that the others watched the transactions & spoke up when the clerk 'made a mistake', it was that when there were others around the clerk never did make a mistake.