future-proof Fictionwise multiformat choice ?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

PDF is an open format, NOT a proprietary one.

And it will continue to exist for those publications with very specific and/or unusual layout needs which is not true of well over 90% of publications.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ahi

Perhaps. And if that comes to pass, eBooks will never replace paper books, being clear and irredeemable failures at serving the same set of utterly basic needs that paper books can easily satisfy.

- Ahi

Again, that is not the point. Paper and ebooks will continue to exist side-by-side for all time. It may come to be that those books requiring special layout may ONLY be available in paper form -- and very expensive. Others will exist in pdf or some derivative of it. There will be an open shared ebook format for most books -- epub or a derivative of it is the most likely winner.

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by ahi

No. Not any more the average driver cares about their car having an aerodynamic shape or multipoint fuel injection.

Surely though, that apathy is no reason to discourage car manufacturers from spending money and resources on either of those things, given that the benefits are real and scientifically identifiable--just as with proper typography, which, despite the unending insinuations otherwise, is not that hard or expensive to get reasonably correct.

- Ahi

"Proper typography" saves money and helps the environment? Who knew?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Again, that is not the point. Paper and ebooks will continue to exist side-by-side for all time.

Exactly. Who decided that eBooks need to replace pBooks?

[sassanik]

I would go: rtf or html for extra back up files as they are not proprietary formats.

I like .lit for my DRM stuff.

Amy

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by sassanik

I would go: rtf or html for extra back up files as they are not proprietary formats.

I like .lit for my DRM stuff.

Amy

Actually ePUB is really html already. You can always take it apart but unzipping it. ePUB is a good backup format.

Dale

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by ahi

A format that is incapable of professionally typesetting (a process that includes layout work, since professional typesetting is a bit of a dirty phrase around here)

I'm not sure about this. I suppose CSS could include kerning & leading options--the hard part would be getting readers to recognize the code. There's no reason an HTML file (and therefore, an ePub file) *couldn't* have typography; it's just currently difficult, and some features aren't supported on all viewers. (Especially ebook-only viewers.)

Even reflow-enthusiasts rarely argue that reflow is viable for typographically complex books, and such books do make up a considerable percentage (if not downright the majority) of existent books.

When you make claims like this, you need to support them.
Are standard novels "typographically complex?" If not (and I'd say not), you'd be fighting *hard* to claim that complex books are the majority of existing books.

Many textbooks are typographically complex... but they're also designed to fit printing requirements. They have multiple columns because it's cheaper to print less pages, not because it's easier to understand data that way. (However, the multiple heading levels and variable chart/photo sizes, caption options, and callout text boxes keep them complex even if the two- or three-column standard went away.)

And while those *are* a significant portion of books published, they're a niche market; people not attending school rarely deal with them. It's possible that, as ebook tech gets better, they'll mostly be replaced with ebooks with entirely different layouts.

New functionality like variable font sizes, in-book links to facilitate sensible jumping about, et cetera are great... but they do not make the product viable if it fails to meet the bare minimum quality standards set by paper books for the last several centuries.

Doctorow dealt with this topic in his essay "Ebooks: Neither E, Nor Books." (Emphasis added)

there was a time when books were hand-printed on rare leather by monks. The only people who could read them were priests, who got a regular eyeful of the really cool cartoons the monks drew in the margins. The priests read the books aloud, in Latin (to a predominantly non-Latin-speaking audience) in cathedrals, wreathed in pricey incense that rose from censers swung by altar boys.

Then Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press. Martin Luther turned that press into a revolution. He printed Bibles in languages that non-priests could read, and distributed them to normal people who got to read the word of God all on their own.

* Luther Bibles lacked the manufacturing quality of the
illuminated Bibles. They were comparatively cheap and lacked the
typographical expressiveness that a really talented monk could
bring to bear when writing out the word of God

* Luther Bibles were utterly unsuited to the traditional use-case
for Bibles. A good Bible was supposed to reinforce the authority
of the man at the pulpit. It needed heft, it needed
impressiveness, and most of all, it needed rarity.

* The user-experience of Luther Bibles sucked. There was no
incense, no altar boys, and who (apart from the priesthood) knew
that reading was so friggin' hard on the eyes?

* Luther Bibles were a lot less trustworthy than the illuminated
numbers. Anyone with a press could run one off, subbing in any
apocryphal text he wanted -- and who knew how accurate that
translation was?

And yet... the printed versions took off, despite the lack of pretty artwork and possibility of poor content quality.

Ebooks don't need to be "better than pbooks in every way." They need to fill a niche that pbooks can't fill--and they're doing that.

[Elfwreck]

Gah. Got distracted by formatting discussion.

For archive purposes: ePub (which is zipped HTML), HTML or RTF. Those are most easily converted to other formats later. If a purchase only covers one version, I get ePub.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Gah. Got distracted by formatting discussion.

For archive purposes: ePub (which is zipped HTML)

XML! XML!

Okay, negligable difference I know

Actually, if they do go ahead with later versions with things like MathML embedding, there will be bits of it which wouldn't display in every browser correctly, but they're useful for an ebook.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

XML! XML!

Okay, negligable difference I know

Actually, if they do go ahead with later versions with things like MathML embedding, there will be bits of it which wouldn't display in every browser correctly, but they're useful for an ebook.

well the metadata is xml but the book content (which is what is archived) is xhtml which is html that follows the rules.

Dale

[dmikov]

Originally Posted by ahi

Perhaps. And if that comes to pass, eBooks will never replace paper books, being clear and irredeemable failures at serving the same set of utterly basic needs that paper books can easily satisfy.

- Ahi

Amen, where do I signup for this future?
Now get over yourself.

[rogue_ronin]

Y`know. Ahi has strong opinions. But s/he`s always polite and engages everyone`s arguments. S/He never tell`s folks to go away. Bit of hijacking, true. But that`s not punishable by exile.

S/he doesn`t seem vulnerable to groupthink -- I find that admirable.

m a r

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by rogue_ronin

Y`know. Ahi has strong opinions. But s/he`s always polite and engages everyone`s arguments. S/He never tell`s folks to go away. Bit of hijacking, true. But that`s not punishable by exile.

S/he doesn`t seem vulnerable to groupthink -- I find that admirable.

m a r

I don't think anyone here is subject to 'group-think.'

Readers seldom are.

But repeatedly hijacking threads is simply rude.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by khalleron

I don't think anyone here is subject to 'group-think.'

Readers seldom are.

But repeatedly hijacking threads is simply rude.

Agreed. As is constantly harping the same thing over and over (and I have not been here that long)

[Avarwen]

Originally Posted by ahi

Perhaps. And if that comes to pass, eBooks will never replace paper books, being clear and irredeemable failures at serving the same set of utterly basic needs that paper books can easily satisfy.

- Ahi

Remember when the Ipod first came out people wrote that off too then the music industry was forced to work with MP3 players or fail. The world is going digital and nothing is going to change that. I'm old enough to remember using the original big old floppy disks in school then they changed to the smaller ones then on to CD's and now flash drives who's to say what's next. My point epub is what's being used now as time goes on bigger and better formats will be made and ebooks will mostly likely become the future of books .