PCs are best for e-reading, Microsoft's Ballmer says

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Aside from the potential eyestrain and heat issues if it's sitting directly on your lap..

Originally Posted by Idoine

I can say that it was a lot more straining for my eyes (due to the backlighting) than with my Cybook !

This is going way off topic, but something I've recently noticed is that the amount of strain my eyes feel can vary with different [transmissive] displays. My laptop LCD is actually the worst... even with the backlight turned down I find this screen difficult to use for more than a few minutes in a dimly lit room (and almost useless in the dark). My Saga's LCD is much better, at least when dimmed. But the best is actually my old matte desktop LCD. I can stare at this screen all day and night and it doesn't bother me much unless I'm tired.

I should note that on all three I almost always have my reader software setup with a black background and blue or green text. I find this cuts down a significant portion of the backlight glare.

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

I really believe the dominant ebook reading platform will ultimately be tablets (including slightly larger IPhone-ish/media player devices) and netbooks that handle a huge number of ordinary computing tasks and HAPPEN to read ebooks, too.

I agree with this as well. At least once the technology improves enough. Though even the release of 3Qi displays [hopefully later this year] might attract some percentage of those that would have otherwise considered a dedicated device (possibly including myself).

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

I really believe the dominant ebook reading platform will ultimately be tablets (including slightly larger IPhone-ish/media player devices) and netbooks that handle a huge number of ordinary computing tasks and HAPPEN to read ebooks, too.

I really believe the dedicated ebook reader is a short-term fad just because the devices are rather large but limited in their capabilities.

Sounds right. I think though it will need to do some of the things and ebook reader does. Mainly be lightweight, stay cool and have great battery life.

If I could get a tablet like that and be able to install whatever reading software I want plus do other things with it I'd probably be in line to get one right away.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

It makes me cringe to have to admit that I kind of, sort of, almost...gack...agree with Ballmer on this (being a proud Linux user and all).

I really believe the dominant ebook reading platform will ultimately be tablets (including slightly larger IPhone-ish/media player devices) and netbooks that handle a huge number of ordinary computing tasks and HAPPEN to read ebooks, too.

I really believe the dedicated ebook reader is a short-term fad just because the devices are rather large but limited in their capabilities.

The combination of multi-functionality and the ever decreasing costs which will lead to $100 netbooks only a year or so down the road suggest to me that netbooks and media players will rule the marketplace not too far in the future.

Maybe, maybe not.

I started reading ebooks on a Palm OS PDA, when a former employer decided all IT staffers should have PDAs and a Handspring Deluxe showed up in interoffice mail. I went looking for things I could do with it that would help me do my job, and discovered I could take manuals in HTML format and convert them to a form I could read on the PDA, with a searchable documentation library in my pocket. I didn't think at the time that I would like to read fiction that way, but I discovered that I could and did.

I still use a PalmOS PDA as my main ereader device, though a different brand and model, but my ebook library is also on my desktop and notebook.

I'm not interested in a dedicated ebook reader like a Kindle because I need color, and more important, a device that does other things besides display ebooks.

My PDA, for example, can handle just about any ebook format, and I have MobiPocket, Plucker, eReader, PDF, Word, RTF and plain text volumes, as well as standard PDA functions, documents and spreadsheets, media viewing, MP3 playing, and games. But that capacity has a price in complexity. For eBooks, I need to maintain half a dozen viewers and recall which book is in which format read by which viewer.

Yes, netbooks and media players will become an increasing segment of the market, but I don't expect dedicated readers to go away. Properly implemented, they have two key advantages: simplicity, and eInk screens. They make it simple to get content and easy to read it, on displays many folks find preferable to backlit LCDs. I really don't think you'll see those displays on netbooks or media players.

Ultimately, I see dedicated ebook readers as a niche device, but I don't see the niche going away.
______
Dennis

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by Idoine

If you can try a e-ink device, you'll see...
Before mine, I read on a laptop, too, and on a PocketPC.
I can say that it was a lot more straining for my eyes (due to the backlighting) than with my Cybook !
The e-ink screen is no more eye-wearing than a paperbook, for me...

Doubtful. I do most of my reading at night and I actually find reading a paperback to be more difficult than reading on a (smallish) laptop. The lamp I have is in a fixed position behind my head so I pretty much have to stay in one spot. I also have to be careful not to block the light and cast shadows on the book.

I've found the iPhone to be pretty good for reading. While I'd like a bigger screen, the iPhone's form factor makes it easy to hold and navigate with just one hand without my arm going numb. It's also pretty well-built. I'm not at all careful with my electronics and I often wake up with the iPhone digging into my stomach or lying on the floor. I have a feeling I'd break an e-ink reader the first night I use it.

That said, I wouldn't say that PC's are the best for ereading. I wouldn't doubt that they're the most used - market penetration of the PC is much higher than dedicated readers. However, the term "best" is relative and each person has their own preference. I actually think e-ink based readers are here to stay, at least until other display technologies catch up. As can be seen on MobileRead, there are quite a number of avid readers who prefer e-ink so there's certainly a market, however niche. This has been mentioned before: smartphones, PDAs, PCs and similar serve to widen the ebook audience. They're not a replacement for dedicated readers, yet.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Yes, netbooks and media players will become an increasing segment of the market, but I don't expect dedicated readers to go away. Properly implemented, they have two key advantages: simplicity, and eInk screens. They make it simple to get content and easy to read it, on displays many folks find preferable to backlit LCDs. I really don't think you'll see those displays on netbooks or media players.

EInk, at least in its current incarnation, would never work on such devices. However there are other display technologies on the horizon with similar advantages. For instance Pixel Qi's LCD based 3Qi display technology, which has a reflective mode that'll supposedly be almost as good as eInk while also possessing a backlit color mode for more traditional usage, and if all goes well these displays will be on the market by year's end.

As for simplicity, well most of the dedicated devices on the market have you first download to a computer and then to the device. Since a netbook is a computer you skip the latter step. Media players usually operate in a similar manor to the aforementioned dedicated reader devices.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I read on a PDA, and yes, mostly for pleasure. I never said I read e-books on PC, just that a lot of other people do, and they shouldn't be marginalized or ignored.

And for the record, when I'm in bed, I generally spend my time doing two things. Neither of those involve reading...

Not YOU, Steve!! Steve BALLMER!!!

[BillSmithBooks]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

My PDA, for example, can handle just about any ebook format, and I have MobiPocket, Plucker, eReader, PDF, Word, RTF and plain text volumes, as well as standard PDA functions, documents and spreadsheets, media viewing, MP3 playing, and games. But that capacity has a price in complexity. For eBooks, I need to maintain half a dozen viewers and recall which book is in which format read by which viewer.

Yes, netbooks and media players will become an increasing segment of the market, but I don't expect dedicated readers to go away. Properly implemented, they have two key advantages: simplicity, and eInk screens. They make it simple to get content and easy to read it, on displays many folks find preferable to backlit LCDs. I really don't think you'll see those displays on netbooks or media players.

Dennis

The big key as I see it is battery life. Has to improve before netbooks/IPhones/tables are the preferred option.

But the complexity problem bring us back to the "Tower of Babel" format issue in a huge way. People need devices that "just work"--that means simplified formats, commonly available readers that run on just about every OS and device.

As far as PCs, etc go, we really are already there: PDF and web browsers (for HTML). Just click on the file, open it and start reading.

HTML is just fine for many books, especially fiction, and PDF is going to be needed for books that are truly layout sensitive. (Ahi is right on this issue when it comes to highly complex books).

I don't see much momentum within the PC industry to include Epub readers as standard software for new devices. THAT would go a long way towards making the format an industry standard.

However, I believe that the fact that you can DRM-cripple an epub book (thanks, Adobe, nice going!) and sell them to people WITHOUT THEM KNOWING their ebooks are DRM-crippled means there's the risk of a huge backlash against that format. (It wouldn't even be epub's fault, which is the shame of it).

I hope the publishers realize this and change course for *their* sake.

MP3 became the industry standard not because the publishers wanted it but because the consumers wanted it. They didn't care about lost fidelity. They just wanted something that sounded *good enough* and that they could back up, load onto their MP3 player (and well, yeah, maybe share with a few friends...but I think that was almost a secondary consideration).

People got really annoyed when they were told they couldn't load their music on a different device, so they started looking for ways to circumvent the publishers' DRM.

I honestly *hope* that music piracy would've been a lot less of an issue if the record companies had listened to consumers and enabled MP3s and eliminated DRM earlier.

But because they dug in their heels and nagged the customers about how what they were doing was illegal, the customers flat-out revolted. Piracy en masse was born.

I believe publishing can garner a lot more goodwill by recognizing that and adopting consumer friendly tactics before it is too late.

[EowynCarter]

e-ink rules !!
My eye are suffering enough from screen exposure, tanks you !

[kennyc]

The problem with pc reading at the moment are: portability, display (eink), and battery life.

If those can be solved and provide the solution in a "PC" then yeah, I'm all for it.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

But PC's are big, bulky, heavy and have awful batter life. Well, compared to a Sony or such.

I wonder if Balmer ever uses the competition and alternative devices that he trashes.

BOb

Battery life on mine is a fair cop, but bulky?



Not really

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Not YOU, Steve!! Steve BALLMER!!!

Needless to say, my comments may not apply to him. (Insert your own punchline.)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Battery life on mine is a fair cop, but bulky?
Not really

It's a good point... Ballmer may lump UMPCs in with PCs, and UMPCs are perfectly good for e-book reading: Light, portable, longer battery life than a PC (though not as long as a cellphone, PDA or dedicated device), and color screens to-boot. And, of course, if they are running Windows, they have the advantage of accepting screen readers for most of the available formats out there. That would be acceptable to many people, me included.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

The big key as I see it is battery life. Has to improve before netbooks/IPhones/tables are the preferred option.

Battery life is impacted by functionality. For instance, the PDA I started reading books on ran a couple of weeks in a pair of AA batteries. I was actually displeased, when the newer more powerful model I got switched to a rechargeable LiON unit. I could carry replacement AA batteries with no problem. A charger was another matter, and what if I was someplace without a place to plug in?

But the original device had a low res 160x160 gray scale screen. When I upgraded to a new Palm OS 5 device, I got double the resolution and color, at a price of reduced battery life. My current device will have no problems being used to read ebooks during a day, but will probably need to recharge at night, and I keep screen brightness as low as I can while keeping it readable.

But the complexity problem bring us back to the "Tower of Babel" format issue in a huge way. People need devices that "just work"--that means simplified formats, commonly available readers that run on just about every OS and device.

As far as PCs, etc go, we really are already there: PDF and web browsers (for HTML). Just click on the file, open it and start reading.

If what you have is HTML or PDF. I want to download electronic content once, and read it on whjatever I happen to have. So by preeremnce I get HTML, which I can read "native" in a browser, or convert easily to a handheld format.

HTML is just fine for many books, especially fiction, and PDF is going to be needed for books that are truly layout sensitive. (Ahi is right on this issue when it comes to highly complex books).

Yes, he is. We knock PDF as an ebo0ok format because most PDFs aren't created with the tags that let them reflow to fit a smaller screen, but some of them would be disasters if they did try to reflow, as it would destroy layout that might be crucial.

I don't see much momentum within the PC industry to include Epub readers as standard software for new devices. THAT would go a long way towards making the format an industry standard.

Adobe is pushing it, and you can get Adobe Digital Editions free from Adobe;s web site and install it along with Adobe Reader. The bigger problem is what gets used to create ePub formatted books. Just about all publishers use Adobe InDesign for markup and typesetting, but InDesign currently produces poor ePub output. If Adobe improves that in CS5, it offers possibilities for the industry, because creating an ebook edition can become part of the publisher's standard workflow. Typeset, markup, layout, save as PDF for printer, save as ePub for ebook, done!

However, I believe that the fact that you can DRM-cripple an epub book (thanks, Adobe, nice going!) and sell them to people WITHOUT THEM KNOWING their ebooks are DRM-crippled means there's the risk of a huge backlash against that format. (It wouldn't even be epub's fault, which is the shame of it).

While Adobe is responsible for both, ePub format and DRM are separate offerings, and can be used independently. Adobe is pushing their DRM solution as "open" because they are a third party who will license to anyone, so you aren't necessarily screwed if your ebook vendor goes under. It's not their proprietary DRM solution that is gone because they are.

What would you have had Adobe do? They sell to corporate customers, many of whom still see DRM as a necessity. Providing what the customers want is how Adobe stays in business...

I hope the publishers realize this and change course for *their* sake.

You and me both, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

MP3 became the industry standard not because the publishers wanted it but because the consumers wanted it. They didn't care about lost fidelity. They just wanted something that sounded *good enough* and that they could back up, load onto their MP3 player (and well, yeah, maybe share with a few friends...but I think that was almost a secondary consideration).

People got really annoyed when they were told they couldn't load their music on a different device, so they started looking for ways to circumvent the publishers' DRM.

I honestly *hope* that music piracy would've been a lot less of an issue if the record companies had listened to consumers and enabled MP3s and eliminated DRM earlier.

But because they dug in their heels and nagged the customers about how what they were doing was illegal, the customers flat-out revolted. Piracy en masse was born.

The other challenge for the music industry was iTunes.

In some respects, iTunes returned the industry to a different age. Once upon a time for pop music, the 45rpm single was the thing. Albums were things you were given as gifts on your birthday or the like, and typically contained the hit singles plus filler tracks.

In the 60's, FM "underground" radio arose, and the album became the thing. Singles still existed, but the albums were the product the record companies sold, and the bands would tour to promote.

With iTunes, the listener can cherry pick. No need to buy the whole album - just grab the songs you like. And the business model is changing. Previously, the album was the product, and youring was something a band did to promote it when they released a new album. Now were are seeing more cases where the gig is the point, and the songs are promotion. I know one musician who leads a band. They've had a couple of major label releases, and a bunch of indie stuff. He's happy if people buy the band's CDs, but not bothered if the buyer rips them and shares them with friends. The more people who hear the music, the more will come and see them when they play.

I believe publishing can garner a lot more goodwill by recognizing that and adopting consumer friendly tactics before it is too late.

Publishing has the Horrible Example of what happened to teh music industry, and Good Example in outfits like Baen Books, who are demonstrating that you can sell ebooks and amke money without DRM.

Customers will pay for value. You have to provide value, price fairly, and make it as easy as possible for the customer to give you money. Make it simpler and more convenient for the customer to pay you than to rip you off, and guess what will happen?
______
Dennis

[BillSmithBooks]

Dennis:

I agree with you on most everything you said.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Battery life is impacted by functionality. For instance, the PDA I started reading books on ran a couple of weeks in a pair of AA batteries. I was actually displeased, when the newer more powerful model I got switched to a rechargeable LiON unit. I could carry replacement AA batteries with no problem. A charger was another matter, and what if I was someplace without a place to plug in?

I miss those days, too. I do most of my writing on an AlphaSmart (will be upgrading from a Dana to a Neo this week) BECAUSE it uses AA batteries--the Neo runs 500 hours on a set of AAs.

Not being hostage to a proprietary battery that someday WILL die is a huge advantage.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

If what you have is HTML or PDF. I want to download electronic content once, and read it on whjatever I happen to have. So by preeremnce I get HTML, which I can read "native" in a browser, or convert easily to a handheld format.

To me that is one of the prime advantages of HTML...run it on almost anything but also very easy to convert to a different format if that is your preference.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

While Adobe is responsible for both, ePub format and DRM are separate offerings, and can be used independently. Adobe is pushing their DRM solution as "open" because they are a third party who will license to anyone, so you aren't necessarily screwed if your ebook vendor goes under. It's not their proprietary DRM solution that is gone because they are.

That is undeniably true...something that will be utterly ignored by the average user.

I believe that, incorrect as it may be, the average consumer will come to equate EPUB with DRM'd ebooks even though they are completely separate matters.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

What would you have had Adobe do? They sell to corporate customers, many of whom still see DRM as a necessity. Providing what the customers want is how Adobe stays in business...

You're correct on that. I just think readers will reject this approach.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Publishing has the Horrible Example of what happened to teh music industry, and Good Example in outfits like Baen Books, who are demonstrating that you can sell ebooks and amke money without DRM.

I think the Horrible Example is a result of the industry not listening to what customers wanted--cheap, backup-able, move from one device to another.

I think DRM made music piracy a lot more prevalent than it would have been if, say, they'd gone to non-DRM'd MP3s, 99 cents a single, $5 for a whole album right off the bat.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Customers will pay for value. You have to provide value, price fairly, and make it as easy as possible for the customer to give you money. Make it simpler and more convenient for the customer to pay you than to rip you off, and guess what will happen?
______
Dennis

I sure hope so.

That's what I've bet my business model on...because it's what I want as a reader.

I think most reasonable people get the idea of "Hey, I really like this guy's stuff. I might want to pay him so he can afford to write more stories for me to enjoy so he doesn't have to flip burgers to pay the mortgage."

--Bill

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by BillSmithBooks

Dennis:

I agree with you on most everything you said.

Thank you.

I miss those days, too. I do most of my writing on an AlphaSmart (will be upgrading from a Dana to a Neo this week) BECAUSE it uses AA batteries--the Neo runs 500 hours on a set of AAs.

I'm aware of the Alphasmart devices, and know people who have them. Earlier versions shipped with an OEM version of Blue Nomad's WordSmith as the word processor. I've been using WordSmith for years, and still consider it the best extant program for creating text on a PalmOS device.

Not being hostage to a proprietary battery that someday WILL die is a huge advantage.

I think the assumption is that by the time the battery dies, you will have already upgraded to a newer and more powerful device.

To me that is one of the prime advantages of HTML...run it on almost anything but also very easy to convert to a different format if that is your preference.

Exactly. It's a good underlying format. I can convert to Plucker (offline HTML viewer for PalmOS devices) or MobiPocket format here easily, and to other formats wuith a little more effort. Things like MobiPocket are essentially encapsulated HTML, so conversion is in part putting a wrapper around the HTML source.

That is undeniably true...something that will be utterly ignored by the average user.


I believe that, incorrect as it may be, the average consumer will come to equate EPUB with DRM'd ebooks even though they are completely separate matters.

That depends on how many ePub books they encounter that aren't DRMed.

But ultimately, DRM is not tied to ebook format. It's a publisher/vendor decision, and for the most part, current commercial titles will be protected by DRM, regardless of what format they are offered in. Let's say the user does decide that ePub is evil because of DRM. What do they get instead? Unless they want to play games with cracking DRM and format shifting, they'll get DRM regardless.

You're correct on that. I just think readers will reject this approach.

That may well be, But that won't be Adobe's problem. They aren't selling to the average user. The readers will reject Adobe's customers, not Adobe.

I think the Horrible Example is a result of the industry not listening to what customers wanted--cheap, backup-able, move from one device to another.

I think DRM made music piracy a lot more prevalent than it would have been if, say, they'd gone to non-DRM'd MP3s, 99 cents a single, $5 for a whole album right off the bat.

I think you might be right. But I think the music industry would still have gone through massive and uncomfortable changes.

I sure hope so.

That's what I've bet my business model on...because it's what I want as a reader.

I think most reasonable people get the idea of "Hey, I really like this guy's stuff. I might want to pay him so he can afford to write more stories for me to enjoy so he doesn't have to flip burgers to pay the mortgage."

You and a lot of other folks.

The challenge for most authors is described by Cory Doctorow's comment "The problem for the writer isn't piracy, it's obscurity". I think he's dead on. Unless you are an established best seller like Stephen King, your problem is marketing. How do you let the folks who might be interested in what you write know that you exist, and have books they might like to read?

That's the piece people complaining about publishers forget. Half of the publisher's job is making the reader aware you exist. There are lots of complaints, often valid, about how poorly they often do it, but they do it.
______
Dennis